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Hollow SportBike Wins for Buell?

Friday, March 27, 2009

When Buell 1125R rider Danny Eslick had to pit with his bike literally falling apart leading the Daytona 200, it looked like another Buell racing effort might fall apart too. With a second round of the new AMA Pro Road Racing series in the books, however, the Buell’s fortunes have turned as Eslick secured the double in the Fontana SportBike races.

Danny Eslick had no troubles with his Buell 1125R at Fontana with the rising star delivering the American marque its first-ever Daytona SportBike victory.

Eslick is heading the Daytona SportBike class aboard the Buell, but is it a fair fight?

Now for the fallout… Road-racing fans were already critical of the large-displacement Buell’s inclusion into the hodge-podge mixture that is the SportBike class. Now they are ticked off. Anticipated as the extension of the 600cc Inline Four-dominated Formula Xtreme, Daytona SportBike encompasses a wider range of machinery, including larger displacement Twins like the Buell. But the liquid-cooled 1125R has a clear displacement advantage, even over fellow Twins, like the literbike Aprilia RSV1000R - not to mention the Ducati Twin, with the 848 legal but the 1098 not.

A skeptic could certainly interpret the deck being stacked in favor of the Buell…

Adding to the controversy is current SportBike point leader, Kawasaki’s Jamie Hacking, being suspended by AMA Pro Road Racing for press conference profanities at Fontana. If Hacker misses the upcoming round at Road Atlanta April 3-5, Eslick is sure to snag the points lead.

Granted, Eslick is a fine talent and it’s a shame his obvious skill behind the controls of the Buell is overshadowed by the controversy over the bike itself, but aren’t Buell’s accomplishment in the SportBike series already ringing hollow?

Is the Daytona Motorsports Group determined to get good ol’ American-made motorcycles on the top of the podium? Or is DMG’s SportBike series a fresh change of the same old same old. It’s hard to argue with the Daytona SportBike parity on the results sheet, with last round netting six different manufacturers in the top seven.

We want to know what our readers think. Is the fix in, or is this just good racing?

Post Tags: buell sportbike, buell racing

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Comments

Pirate News - What They won't tell you on Speed TV about Sportbike bracket racin July 6, 2009 09:58 PM
Rule 1 in bracket racing, know when to sandbag. Rule 2 at DMG, attract drunk Harley gangbangers to fill the empty grandstands at the Daytona 200 JV race by telling em a Buell Rotax V-twin is Made In USA. Never mind that no Harleys are Made In USA, unless Taiwan is the 51st state. Why racers should learn how to win in traffic court so they know how to sue a sanctiong bunch of mafia gangstas in WWFCAR. Or didn't you know that Dale EARNhardt never had to go through tech at Daytona? Dale had $50-million per year in "retail sales" of "t-shirts" at stake. And runnin moonshine has nuttin in common with laundering drug money... At least Tony George got fired this week for destroying Indycar and replacing it with the girly Scab 500, literally with castrated pitcrew wearing bikinis on TeeVee last night. I switched off the race before it even started. DealsGapDragon.com: 636 curves and 36 cops per 22-mile lap

Chris Auer - Huge bike fan who has check out of Daytona Sportbike April 25, 2009 08:10 PM
I have been a huge fan of AMA for a long time. I was willing to give Daytona Group a chance when they took over AMA. There was a fear they would try and NASCAR the sport which is great for sponsors, but useless for the races. Well the Buell saga has ruined it. I get the idea that you want an American brand up front once in a while, but what the hell. When you see the Buells leave EVERYONE behind on any straight away is just wrong. The 600s have to slide into every corner at full speed just to try and make up some ground, only to have the Buell run away again. If the Buell has a little advantage, fine. But it is embarrassing to see them leave on every straight away. Imagine how the racers feel when you fight to get in front of the Buell and get left in the dust 2 seconds later. Its not fair, its obvious and you have lost a fan. Your intentions should have been more vailed. Sorry, but you lost me.

Brian Wilson - Buell advantage April 9, 2009 01:07 PM
To start with,the Buell is claiming 146hp at the crank stock.Most bike lose 10-12% in transfer so that equates to 128 to 131 rear wheel HP. With modifications allowed under the rules,its not unreasonable to think that the Buell is pushing 140-145 hp.I have seen hundreds of stock 600's dynoed and all of them come in under 110 at the rear wheel.With modifications allowed,the 600's are pushing 118-120 hp.The Buell has close to twice the torque and a 15-20 hp advantage.Here is the kicker and im not sure why some of you so called race fans have not picked up on the fact that right before Daytona,DMG allowed the Buell and only the Buell a weight exception and a wheel exception and a final drive exception and a connecting rod exception and a suspension replacement exception.Why was Buell the only twin that was allowed to lower their weight to the same as the 600's.Why was Buell allowed full Showa suspension when the rules explicitly stated that internals were the only allowable change from stock.Why were connecting rods from Buell Racing allowed when everyone else has to use stock engine internals. The answer to all those whys is obvious.The Buell is a lunking POS that has to have special considerations to perform with something half its displacement and thousands of dollars cheaper . The Buell is basically a prototype race bike running against stock 600's with a pipe and a good tune.That must make Eric Buell and his customers awfully proud.Winning like this is like entering you perfectly healthy child in the Special Olympics so he can be a winner.Personally,if i were Buell owner,i would be humiliated.

John - Daytona Sportbike controversy April 6, 2009 10:21 AM
Look at the low attendance at Road Atlanta last weekend and I think you'll see the fans' opinion.

Juan Valdez - You all suck donkey dick April 5, 2009 06:06 PM
Say what you will, but an almost 600cc (READ DOUBLE SIZED YOU DUMB REDNECKS) increase in engine size is not fair racing no matter what other racing league you look in. Check out everything from F1 to Nascar to Olympic bobsledding. Either the vehicles are the same or someone is cheating. Harley jackass's; lick my balls.

Eric Von Zipper - Buell Wins Midget Toss April 5, 2009 05:32 PM
The fix is in. Buell has a 20 HP advantage and nearly twice the torque of the 600s, so they can easily out-accelerate them. Buell wants you to believe they're winning because of funky brakes and sharp handling, not the extra 525cc. The only way to straighten the mess out that DMG created is to put the fastest 600s and Eslick's Buell on the dyno to determine what size restrictor plates the Buell needs - after all it's Nascrap. The only logical reason to keep the Ducati 1098 out of the race is because it's too fast for the 600s. DMG can't have it both ways. Either the Ducati should be in, or the Buell should be out.

Hadian - Blake BS April 1, 2009 07:25 AM
“Bone stock mechanical 1125 Buell is beating the worked over Japan Inc Factory bikes” BS ALERT!!! Blake, seriously, the Buell Eslick is riding is a factory bike and not even close to “bone stock” and other than the factory Yamahas there are no other factory teams in Daytona sportbike and that’s a fact. And if the Buell has such a great “handling advantage” then why is the Buell always being beat in super pole by a 600? “Well, the IL4 600's have twice as as many cylinders, twice as many valves, and 50% more rev limit” And you forgot Blake the 1125R has Twice as many cc of displacement and nearly twice as much torque, a Ducati can compete with only a couple a hundred cc more but the Buell needs over half a liter more displacement. Last I checked the 600s are also street bikes. I know this is true because I see them all the time on our public roads. “How much do you imagine Mr. Hacking's factory ZX6R is worth “Besides the fact it is not a factory bike I would say $15,000 easy because the ZX6R cost over $2,000 less than the Buell to begin with AND with DMGs new rules there is NO part on ANY bike in ANY class in AMA that has unattainable parts and that’s a fact too.

Blake - Truth is in the facts March 31, 2009 09:08 PM
Bench/stat racing means nothing. DMG formed the class and the rules to make for even racing. If it turns out otherwise, they'll ajust accordingly. All the pathetic whining by the 600cc Japan Inc. fans is embarassing. Bone stock mechanical 1125 Buell is beating the worked over Japan Inc Factory bikes, not in top speed, but through the infield. That's not from power advantage. It's handling. Freddie Spencer even commented on this in the 1st round at Fontana. There was Hacking getting bucked and sliding through the turn, then there was Eslick motoring like a walk in park nearly dragging the big Buell's nacelles on the tarmac. If not for Hacking letting himself get all tangled with his other 600cc competition, Danny (Slick) Eslick and the big Buell would not likely have been so fortunate to pull such a gap. Second race was close. So far the series looks to be well-matched, uless of course you've swallowed, gulped and swallowed again the shot of propaganda being spurt from Japan Inc, that all that matters is displacement. Well, the IL4 600's have twice as as many cylinders, twice as many valves, and 50% more rev limit due to their ridiculoulsy oversquare racing engine design. Buell runs a streetbike that actually offers usable power from 3K rpm up peaking at just over 10K rpm. Real world riding and you can put together the same bike as Slick's with a new 1125R and a few parts from Buell racing, all for a whopping $17K. How much do you imagine Mr. Hacking's factory ZX6R is worth? Go Slick! Go Buell! Blake Buell XB12X www.BadWeatherBikers.com

Hadian - For the nit pickers March 30, 2009 08:36 PM
My own post "Other than Yamaha name one Japanese factory or manufacturer racing in Daytona sportbike"? So there is no confusion what I mean is official factory teams like HRC American Honda and such.

RedRaider - expoentially w/ mass increase, March 30, 2009 08:35 PM
jimbolaya I think you are overstating this effect dramatically. If what you say was true, Ducati would have never won a World Superbike Championship with its large V-Twins agains inline 4s. Sounds like you work for Harley-Buell. Bottom line is that the Buell should be treated just like the Ducati. If Buell wants to race against the 600s they should reduce their engine size to that equal of the Ducati 848. Otherwise be a man Buell like Ducati and race against the liter inline 4s. Buell is a bully racing against the little 600s

Hadian - jimbolaya March 30, 2009 07:39 PM
“This gyroscopic mass makes the bike resist any change in vertical angle. IIRC its effect increases expoentially w/ mass increase, dramatically decresing cornering capability as the mass increases (in other words the Buell suffers greatly in this quality vs. the I-4)”. I agree totally, but some posters here say Buell owns the corners and actually has an advantage in this quality and that’s why it is winning races and not because of the displacement advantage. “why did not the Japanese just pull out altogether & force DMG's hand in correcting the error” Other than Yamaha name one Japanese factory or manufacturer racing in Daytona sportbike? The only people that are forcing anything are DMG it’s their way or the highway.

jimbolaya - 2c March 30, 2009 07:22 PM
I have no dog in this fight. Just a question: if the so-called fix was in, why did not the Japanese just pull out altogether & force DMG's hand in correcting the error? Per the argument against the current rules, all the Japanse could do is loose & allow Buell all the ad copy for the championship. Unless the Japanese are really stupid (not), they would not compete in a series w/ a forgone conlusion. This is a reasonable justification for the current rules, though we will see as the year continues. One would seem to conclude that the Japanese entered this eyes wide open expecting to be competitive. BTW, well beyond hp/wt ratio is the very real effect of reciprocating mass, of which the Buell is estimated to have about twice as much as the I-4s. This gyroscopic mass makes the bike resist any change in vertical angle. IIRC its effect increases expoentially w/ mass increase, dramatically decresing cornering capability as the mass increases (in other words the Buell suffers greatly in this quality vs. the I-4).

RedRaider - Buell Cheating -- Like A-Rod on steriods March 30, 2009 07:17 PM
The Buell has huge torque and high end power advantage. When the Buell races against the 1000 cc inline 4 bikes it gets it butt kicked. Why doesn't the AMA user World Superbike and World Supersport rules? In the long run the AMA will change the rules and if Danny wins the championship there will be an asterisk in the record book

Hadian - Pete March 30, 2009 07:17 PM
No "unfair advantage" there, was there? Nah. Suzuki just has all the best riders in the world, that's why they are faster, right?" What on earth are you talking about Pete? Was the GSXR1000 allowed to have more displacement than its competition? Maybe nobody is talking about Suzuki because the title of the blog is “Hollow sportbike wins for Buell”. And if you saying Suzuki only won their races because they had the best riders then Duh, who would you hire to race your bikes. If you meant it sarcastically then I think Ben Spies is currently proving you dead wrong. Mladin is racing a 2008 bike taken right off a dealer floor less than a week before the Daytona race and his and all the other superbikes are using essentially superstock rules for what they can modify. What would you do if you were Mladin, and now Tommy Hayden, throw the race and not try to win. Talk about cry babies! Mladin is a few years away from turning 40 yrs. old and he is winning races. Remember this when you get to be the best at something you like to do. Why do you think none of us race Pete? Is it because you don’t and therefore no one else here does either.

Hadian - Reply to Steve Part two March 30, 2009 06:15 PM
While searching through some more old Road Racing World mags , I found the article you were probably referring to even though it was not a summer month issue. Volume 14 number 10 October 2004, page92 and I quote “Hobbs was pretty candid regarding the Erion FX machine, saying it is right around the 140 bhp mark on their dyno” end quote. Steve bhp is brake horsepower, which is measured at the crankshaft not the rear wheel. So, that means subtract about 10% for power lost in the drivetrain you would get about 126 rwhp. Hope this sheds some light on your disagreement with my numbers.

Pete - Competition March 30, 2009 05:26 PM
Why aren't any of you that are complaining about the Buell, also complaining about the fact that Suzuki has taken most of the top spots in every Superbike race so far this year? Far more Suzukis on the podium in Superbike than Buells in Sportbike. Where were you when it was the "Matt and Ben Show" for all those years? No "unfair advantage" there, was there? Nah. Suzuki just has all the best riders in the world, that's why they are faster, right? If the Buell really had the big advantage that you whiny little babies keep crying about, they would have taken all the podium spots in every race so far this year. The fact that they haven't is proof that there is no such advantage, and you all just can't stand the fact that Buell is now a force to be reckoned with in Sportbike. Your entire arguement is based on a spec-sheet. Why don't you "spec-sheet" racers man up, put a bike together and get out on the track? Learn something, then come back and give us the benefit of your vast knowledge.

Hadian - ZEKE March 30, 2009 05:14 PM
All together now...ZEKE where is your proof because I call BS on your post.

Hadian - Cliff March 30, 2009 05:11 PM
Read my first post!

Hadian - Randy T March 30, 2009 05:10 PM
"If Hacking could not get the draft it was because he was not close /or positioned properly enough to enact it" I guess when Jamie Hacking had pole position, and Eslick's Buell was a little bit behind and beside him, means Hacking wasn't “positioned” well when the Buell passed him on the banking LOL. " 115 RWH? Sounds a little arbitrary, have any sources to back that up or just your best guess" Why does it sound arbitrary Randy T? What’s your best guess? This game can be played by both sides, you sound like the poster Steve and I gave him his proof. Did you read the list of allowable mods for 600s in the Daytona class Randy T? How much more HP do you think you can get out of a 600 staying within those rules 6,7 maybe 10 more. Have you ever seen a 600 ss bike on the dyno? I have many times, sometimes it was mine. Sounds like to me Randy T OPINION is all you have to add to this discussion. I didn’t change the laws of physics Randy T like you are trying to change the facts of what I and every other race fan saw at Fontana. “I have to ask the question, what interest would DMG have in putting the fix in for Buell? Take a look at what happened with pro drag racing when Harley got involved. And I will ask it again and again, if there is no fix for Buell then WHY can’t Ducati compete with their 1098 in Daytona sportbike against the Buell?

Hadian - Ahh...Steve March 30, 2009 04:42 PM
"130 RHWP for the factory Honda in FX? Have a dyno sheet for that? IIRC, the Factory FX bikes were putting down 140+HP back in 2004"! Well, Steve where is YOUR dyno sheet to prove YOUR claim. Funny how I need a dyno sheet and you don't hmmmm. Anyhow, Steve I have that July issue or Road Racing World in my hand as we type, Volume 14, number 7 July 2004 pages 125-127 not ONE mention of how much HP just equipment and weight etc. No dyno charts Steve. Where did you get your 140 HP figure from? I however, DO have a dyno sheet to support my claim. Road Racing World issue volume 14, number 10 October 2004 pages 50-57. The article is titled Kawasaki ZX-6rr formula extreme project bike. On page 56 and 57 it has a DYNO chart of before and after FX modifications. With modifications it made 114.8 rwhp. Once again Steve, it is a flat out lie that the Buell was losing ground on the banking and you know it. Even the commentators on speed were gushing about how well the Buell pulled Hacking's zx6r on the banking. Now when you have a credible post to put up, share with the rest of us where you get your info.

Dave Tweed - racing a sixxer March 30, 2009 04:19 PM
I think the race is fair as the other buells didn't finish .2.3 so quit your panty wincing crying. Get off the buell bashing train for crying out loud. The I4's have plenty enough juice to beat the buells and all you bashers were happy to let us know to about it for the past several years. HERE"S MUD IN YOUR EYE

Stevie Wonder - Dolts March 30, 2009 02:47 PM
Tim, Steve Crevier is racing the 1125R in AMA Superbike on selected dates.

Mark - Can't compare without real numbers March 30, 2009 02:24 PM
I am a Buell owner and I love to see them doing well. That being said, how can we determine whether or not Buell has a distinct advantage without seeing the spec sheets on all the bikes, Buell's included. Engine displacement is only one aspect of many in a way that an engine creates horsepower and torque. The Buell has more cc's but it also has less cylinders and less valves than the other bikes on the field. A 1125cc Inline-4 would make a ton more power than the currect 1125cc Buell V-Twin. Like I said, lets look at the Weight, HP and Torque of all the bikes and then we can make an accurate determination if there is an unfair advantage. My guess is that there really isn't any advantage and that would probably just aggravate a lot people here even more. Heck, if Buell had a true advantage why didn't any other Buell crack the top 10?

ZEKE - Winners and Whiners - March 30, 2009 01:59 PM
The stat sheets clearly reflect the fact that the IL4 bikes have more power rear wheel than the Buell. Race bikes are obviously packing even more. If the Buells had taken more than 1 good finishing position, then perhaps there would be room for complaint. As it stands now - all I hear is a bunch of BS being spouted by sore losers. From the same group that swore a twin would never beat an IL4 - you guys need to buck up, shut up, and race! EZ

Cliff - Hey, what about....... March 30, 2009 01:07 PM
Aprilia? The RSV1000R is a "whopping" 125cc behind the Buell. I'm waiting to hear about how unfair it is to have THAT bike competing against the 600's. Is that crickets? I believe so!

Randy T - Hadian March 30, 2009 12:48 PM
My brethren as you state it are motorcyclist, my current bike is a Buell and I have owned quite a few motorcycles previously all japanese and most of them fine machines. I have not "twisted" anything and do see anything that warrants excuse making on my part. You however have used conjecture and guesswork to reinforce the crutch that is popular OPINION on this subject as far as it exists now. 115 RWH? Sounds a little arbitrary, have any sources to back that up or just your best guess? If Hacking could not get the draft it was because he was not close /or positioned properly enough to enact it, at that engine speed and bike speed the opportunity was there. Physics do not change simply because you say so. But I am sorry, I guess instead of using reason and logic to give the series a fair shake on a whole I should have just resorted to the "you guys are cheats approach" . I have to ask the question, what interest would DMG have in putting the fix in for Buell? The company is a minority in both sales and production compared to most other manufacturers, what does this do for DMG's bottom line but decrease it if this is indeed the scenario. What Harley connection ? What Harley rider is even paying attention to sport bike racing? This conspiracy stuff is wearing really thin. If a fix was to be put in, wouldn't you think it would be for one of the manufactures who actually put real money into the effort to appease both them and their fan base? Of course I am only proficient at logic so I can't come up with any hair brained schemes on my own.

Sam Van Handel - Racing Finally! March 30, 2009 12:13 PM
I do not see a true advantage to the Buells set up. Granted there is a displacement advantage but the power to weight ratios are all calculated and are close to each other. Stock motor in the Buell also. The 1125R's "ugly" fairing was aerodynamically designed to make a section of dead air for the rider and maybe this in turn means there is very little drafting ability. Anybody have a weight sheet from after the races? Eslick's Buell was at 395 roughly. The anger surprises me because finally there is an American made sportbike being competitive in a class of racing it is qualified to be in. Plus unlike the big 4 you or I can go into a dealer and buy that bike. Every piece they add has a Buell factory part number. So you too can have Eslick's bike for roughly $17000 including the bike! Try to get some of those unobtanium parts from the big 4 some time see how easy it is. Lets just be happy that there is some parity in racing and not watching the same guy or 2 win every week for 6+ years like superbike.

Steve - 1125R March 30, 2009 12:10 PM
130 RHWP for the factory Honda in FX? Have a dyno sheet for that? IIRC, the Factory FX bikes were putting down 140+HP back in 2004! Roadracing world had an article on weights and HP back in the summer of 2004. If the Buell is so overpowering, why is it actually gaining ground in the corners, and NOT on the banked sections?

Joe Rosa - Buell SportBike March 30, 2009 12:08 PM
Well, I am a Buell fan and would love to see Buell do well. However this is stupid! Buell needs to race in the liter size class (Superbikes). If they don't want to then it should not be on the track at all. If they want to make a 600 version of their bike then fine let it race against the 600s. This is just another sign of DMG destroying the love of motorcycle racing. I can not believe that the AMA has let a group that does not care about motorcycles have the rights to this race series. I tried to be objective at the beginning but I have given up. I will be following the World Superbike series. And this is very painful to all of us that wanted to see the series that was born here once again become the premier series. If I wanted to go to NASCAR races then I would. I DON'T! When will American motorcycle companies get serious about racing and quit acting like they should be able to compete on their own terms and then be called champions.

Hadian - BuellerAndy, Randy T and other Buell Crusaders March 30, 2009 11:58 AM
LOL BuellerAndy- "Those guys got beat by a street bike with HALF the cylinders". lol... lol... lol... oh ya, but you forgot the part about... lol... lol... DOUBLE THE DISPLACEMNT! lol.. lol. Thanks I needed a good laugh! Please keep'em coming. Randy T Apparently you were watching a different Daytona than the rest of us because the Buell was killing the R6 on the banking and the reason the r6 was leading most of the race was because around lap 16 Eslick’s Buell started falling apart and had to pit. And to all the posters that said the Buell was losing ground on the banking at Fontana WTF??? Did any of you see the Buell just motor away from Hacking’s zx6r with ease ON the banking and Hacking got Zero draft. Boy that’s sure is a weird disadvantage for the Buell on the banking when your competitors can’t even draft you but you can and did pass them at will on the banking. Buell owners remind me of their brethren, Harley owners; they always twist the truth and make excuses.

Hadian - FT_BSTRD & Andy March 30, 2009 11:27 AM
For starters it clearly says in the rules the Buell can weigh 385 lbs. That’s only 20 more than the 600s. (http://www.amaproracing.com/rr/about/index.cfm?class=ds) See for yourself. Second, the spread between the Buell and any 600 is enormous. Are you going to tell me the 30+ ft. lbs. of rw torque the Buell has over the 600s is the same spread one 600 has to the other? Big torque numbers give you a huge advantage when driving out of corners, just ask Ducati. Third, when this class was called formula extreme, the factory Honda 600rr was making 130 rwhp and this was with very expensive and trick factory kit parts. Now the Daytona Sportbike class goes by 600 supersport rules, so 600s are making only 115 rwhp. The Buell puts down 120+ rwhp bone stock, as in right off the dealer floor. A bone stock Buell has an advantage over Hacking’s ZX6R. If you want to believe that an 1125cc modern, liquid cooled v-twin sport bike in full factory race trim is “equivalent” to non-factory 600s then go ahead have at it. Harley-Buellson does have more influence than the big 4, if you had been following the fall out between DMG and the big 4 you would see just how little respect and consideration DMG had and has for any of the big 4 and including Ducati. Even Ducati factory and Ducati privateer racers know this class is a joke; that’s why there isn’t one Ducati 848 racing in this class. Jamie Hacking would have beat those other Buell riders even if they were on GSXR1000s. Two of the other 4 Buell racers are no name privateers and Barnes is past his prime. Sorry, Buell apologists/defenders this is an argument that can’t be won. Anyone with fifth grade level math skills can see the rules don’t add up. And I still haven’t heard one single reason or response either intelligent or ignorant as to why Buell gets 1125cc and Ducati gets 848cc. Now that’s comparing apples to apples with respects to engines. Somehow the topic always goes back to the 600s and Buell. Probably because it is easier to make excuses for the Buell and put some spin on it.

BuellerAndy - Wow March 30, 2009 11:17 AM
I am truly amazed at how many tears are being shed over a motorcycle that was designed for street/track use. I mean hey, to all of you who went and hopped on the Buell websites, did you see ANYTHING promoting race activities in ANY of the bikes sections? Don't think so. Those guys got beat by a street bike with HALF the cylinders. Personally I'd like to see what Buell can do with an actual RR version with the dollar amounts and aftermarket to back it up. Then you guys could start whining about being unfair.

Court Canfield - Buell 1125R Victories March 30, 2009 11:16 AM
>>>We want to know what our readers think. Is the fix in, or is this just good racing? Given that all manufacturers were represented and the intent of the efforts was to create a level field, it'd hardly seem accurate to say the "fix was in" without accusing someone of poor bargaining skills. The fact that 6 manufacturers were represented among the top 10 finishers pretty well renders moot any logic about a particular brand having any unfair advantage. I'm, personally, thrilled to see the Buells not only proving themselves competitive but among the most reliable in the field. It's also noteworthy that the sanctioning body, in an ongoing effort to maintain the level, has determined that the splits indicate that the Buells advantage (big surprise) was in the corners, not on the straights. Originally the sanctioning body AMA Pro Racing run by DMG intended that the class be HP limited. The Japan Inc factories did not want the class to be HP limited; they pitched a fit over the idea as originally intended. They have no leg to stand on complaining about it now. The trap speeds and lap splits have proven that the bikes that are racing are enjoying good parity. The big Buell actually garnering better splits through the twisty stuff. Whatever your opinion, I think all agree that for the first time in years we're seeing interest on the rise. Love'em or hate'em the Buells have tons of folks now interested in racing.

JLB - Uggh! March 30, 2009 11:16 AM
My Buell is more fun than your bike. Why? Because it's mine, and I don't ride your bike.

Jeff - Buell does own the corners March 30, 2009 11:01 AM
Split times show the Buell making time in the corners and losing time in the banking. So much for the argument that is is overpowering the 600 machines. It is heavier and has 2/3 the RPM capability. Talk about unfair, the 600s have a 2 cylinder and 8 valve advantage! That was sarcasm. You can't compare V twins and 4 cylinder engines by displacement alone. The HP/weight of all these machines is just about the same. Why didn't Buell sweep the podium if it's so unfair?

Joshua - Horses for courses March 30, 2009 10:55 AM
I think this might turn into the classic racing matchup. The heavier more powerful bike against the lighter better handling one. Im not surprised to see the big bike winning on courses that incorporate NASCAR banking, but I will be surprised if they continue to win on more technical courses. Still, it is completely possible the Buell will need to be handicapped or removed. I guess we will know pretty soon.

Randy T - Lose the remote in the cushions? March 30, 2009 10:48 AM
It's easy to armchair about what's fair and what is not, but how about waiting for the series to actually have some rounds behind it before replacing the promoters game plan that actually has experience and real money and resources poured into it? And what Daytona was everybody else watching? My cheap TV kept showing the Yamaha's owning the top speed on the banking! If the Buells are found to have an unfair advantage after some races have actually accumulated then let them be handicapped further to ensure parity as fair is fair, but knock off the sky is falling routine which only reinforces the status quo nonsense that brought AMA racing to this point in the first place.

FT_BSTRD - Spec Sheet Farce March 30, 2009 10:28 AM
What is it with IL4 guys and the spec sheet bench racing? I find it interesting that all the articles always site the specs from the Honda. Why is this? The Honda is the weakest performer of the bunch if you look at the spec sheets. So giving away 10HP stock between makes is ok as long as the engine configurations are the same? You guys are on crack if you think that they rolled these bikes in off the showroom floor and slapped number plates on them. Yeah, I really believe that, in race prep, the Honda is only putting down 105HP at the wheel. Does anyone have a dyno sheet for race prepped bikes? Anyone? Instead everyone spouts stock charts as if they are reality and what is happening at the track. Let's compare a real race prepped dyno sheet of a GSXR and compare it with a real race prepped dyno sheet of an 1125R and see what we are really getting. Then add the 35-40lb weight difference and recalculate power to weight ratios. I'd bet the spread between the Buell and the IL4s is less than the spread between the Honda and the GSXR. Besides all of that, you really believe that Buell (HD) has more influence over the race series than the Big Four? Get real.

Andy - It's just good racing March 30, 2009 10:09 AM
Whatever you bunch of Buell haters. They have no advantage. Jamie had no issues beating 4 other Buells that were in the field. Danny was just a better rider than he was that weekend. Let also not forget that the Buells are coming in at almost 400lbs even. Thats 35 pounds heavier than the UJMs.

Desmolicious - Buell = Kramer on Seinfeld March 30, 2009 10:05 AM
This reminds of the Seinfeld episode where Kramer was kicking butt in karate class. Only problem was he was fighting against 10 year olds...

Mark K - Harley Crybabies March 29, 2009 08:24 PM
If you can't beat 'em fair and square, change the rules! That's the Harley racing motto! From flat rack to drag racing, Ever since the 1940's, Harley caould never build a competitive race bike in any class. The ONLY way they win is to rulbook out the competition. Even crybaby Ducati only asks for 200cc extra. If they want to prove the Buell is not an overrated piece of junk, race Superbike with the Ducatis and the 100cc fours. Next they'll make a 450cc motocross bike, but want to race it in the Lites class. Pathetic.

Hadian - Duncan Morrison & Joshua March 29, 2009 08:08 PM
Joshua and Duncan I don’t think anyone is saying Buell currently has a dynasty because of a couple race wins, but it is obvious it will soon be headed that way. From what I saw in the Daytona race, before Eslick’s Buell had an issue, was his Buell at will running down the factory Yamaha R6 without even needing the draft and the R6 was not even able to get a little bit of a tow from Eslick’s Buell. In the Fontana race Hacking’s zx6R gets the jump from the rolling start because he had pole but the Buell simply inhaled him like as if Hacking was in top gear or something. Also, the 600s didn’t really start fighting for position until well after the Buell was long gone. You could see that Hacking was getting no draft what so ever in the early going of the race. Hacking even said he got zero draft and hacking had the fastest 600 out there. You said you’re happier with the racing in this class than you were with the racing in superbike last year but the only close racing was between the 600s battling for second and third place; which is exactly what you saw last year in 600ss and will see in this class except for the a factory Buell that will always be leading. I don’t need to wait and watch 2-3 seasons of Buell dominance in order to figure out that the displacement rules is this class are crooked and just plain wrong. Besides, Mladin and Spies did have a dynasty but it was a dynasty that was earned while playing by fair rules where they beat other factory 1000cc I-4 bikes with their 1000cc I-4 factory bike. I hope Spies starts a new dynasty in WSBK at least in that racing organization he won’t be mocked or shamed for being so fast and good at what he does.

Keith - Buell 1125 March 29, 2009 07:55 PM
I'm all for class diversity and think the mix of 600's, 675 and 848 makes sense. Perhaps if the Buell continues on a tear they can add some weight to it to handicap to compensate for the torque/HP advantage it has.. The race behind Eslick was certainly good.

James - If Buell can't compete without having twice the displacement... March 29, 2009 06:44 PM
Somewhere along the line some overly-patriotic official said to himself 'What this sport needs is a good ol' American machine in Daytona Sportbike.' After realising that the only 'good ol' American machine' capable of running with the Japanese middleweights had nearly double the displacement, they took the only sensible course of action... they changed the rules to allow it anyway. Good going AMA! This thing has a mind-numbing 1125cc's of displacement! If that's the only way that any American bike can keep up with 600cc Japanese bikes, then we don't need an American bike period. I love my country. I am a proud Canadian. But for all our sakes, AMA, use sportsmanship, and brainpower, instead of your flag, to justify your decisions.

GarrettR - Power ratings March 29, 2009 12:01 PM
The Buell website claims 146HP and 82 ft/lbs on its own website for the 1125R. Kawasaki only claims 49 ft/lbs on its ZX-6R site. No Inline 600 four is gonna make 140+ HP either. DMG is total BS on this call.

Joshua - Hold on a second March 29, 2009 11:51 AM
I agree with Duncan. Two wins does not a dynasty make. Not to mention that there was only one Buell in the top ten. I think the reason Eslick got such a lead in the first race wasn't dominant machinery it was the fact that the four riders behind him were fighting from start to finish. In the last five laps there were like twelve changes of position. I could be wrong, but I just don't see the evidence for an unfair situation yet. It could be that Eslick is just coming into his own... that does happen. Also, I am happier with the racing in this class than I was in last years Superbike. It wasn't fun to know Spies and Mladin would win every race by a matter of seconds. If that happens with Buell I will be upset too, but until then I saw some great racing in Fontana.

Superlight - Buell 1125R March 29, 2009 06:39 AM
An advantage to the old, air-cooled 2V Buell made some sense, but not with the 1125R - it has the same technology as the Ducati 1198, minus desmodromics. As much as I like to see the Japanese fours get beat by twins, this is not the way to go about it.

Bryan - Buell's huge marketing mistake March 28, 2009 10:08 AM
Buell has nothing to gain here. It's ridiculous for them to be allowed to run with 600's. The fact that only one of the Buell riders is getting podium finishes is just proof of how great the 600's are. Buell is using an unfair machine and still can't manage to dominate. I'm sure by next year they'll modify the rules further just like in they did in drag racing so that they can win. What a joke.

Tim - Buell owns the corners---Not !!!!!!!! March 28, 2009 08:07 AM
Buell claims to own the corners. What they fail to mention is, they need twice the displacement to do it !!!!! Buell being in this class is a complete joke. If they were made to race in the Superbike class like the Ducati 1098 is, they wouldn't even be in the top 10. Please, someone explain to me why Buell is allowed in this class!!!!! To me, I would be embarassed if I were Buell, that the races are even as close as they are. I think the race results say more about how good the the Jap. 600cc bikes are compared to the Buell. The times are very, very very, close and the Buell has twice the displacement. I'm not sure Buell really has anything to be proud of here.

Duncan Morrison - Then again... March 27, 2009 09:27 PM
Fair arguments, but notice that the other Buell riders aren't in 2nd, 3rd and 4th spots. As I recall (always a sketchy thing, my memory), Shawn Higbee and Michael Barnes et al are finishing mid-pack. Show me a Buell podium sweep before I'll write off the class. Also, it's only been 2 (well, 3) races. Jaime makes a great point and I agree with Hadian as well; the 600 class didn't NEED fixing, it was the Mladin/Spies Show that was boring. Shit, bring back the 250's. I LOVE watching guys drag their freakin' elbows.

Hadian - Can you handle the truth? March 27, 2009 07:23 PM
It’s absurd to even ask if this class DS (Daytona sportbike) is hollow, of course it is. If memory serves me right up until around 2003 give or take a year, Aprilia was racing the RSV1000R against 750cc superbike I-4 and other 1000cc twins from both Ducati and Honda. Now this bike along with the Buell 1125 are competing with 599cc I-4 and 848cc Ducaties (although no Ducati 848s have actually started any races so far this year in DS). Indeed the 600cc bikes have gotten much better over the past 5+ years and so has Ducati, does that mean they should be penalized or handicapped, no. The only and I mean the only reason sportbikes have gotten better is because of fair, relevant, and competitive racing. I can maybe see allowing the RSV1000R only because the bikes design has not changed one bit in the past 5-6 years, but the Buell! The Buell is brand new and loaded with modern technology and plenty of displacement and potential. With the racing class structure DMG has put forth the slower, lower or less engineered, more outdated bikes get special treatment. If Aprilia wants to race in DMG fine then Aprilia can race in superbike with their RSV4. Otherwise stay home. Same goes with Buell, race in superbike with your twin; Ducati is and they are very competitive. Or go the other route and allow 750cc I-4 or allow the 600 to be stroked or punched out to 636cc or more. I also don’t buy this crap about “well the more manufactures racing the better” not if these manufactures can’t compete fairly or make an inferior product. Besides where were these “other” manufactures over the past 30+ years while the big four kept the AMA and road racing alive as we know it. Ya, there were 6 manufactures running in the top 7. So what, last year there were 5. The only difference now is Aprilia has replaced Ducati and Buell is allowed to cheat. The 600 class has always been close, competitive, and fun to watch. DMG didn’t “fix” anything here. What’s really sad is the Triumph 675 has only one more cylinder than the Buell but is only allowed a 75cc advantage over the 600s but the Buell is allowed a 526cc advantage…it’s as hollow as those giant chocolate Easter bunnies but without the sweet taste.

Jaime - Pfah!! March 27, 2009 05:18 PM
I've owned Buells for the past nine years and love the brand. That being said, I think it's RIDICULOUS that the 1125R is being run with the 600s in this farcical racing class. I could accept the logic behind the XBRR, what with it's two-valve, air-cooled, pushrod antique engine... but the helicon engine is a modern, high-performance motorcycle engine. Others in the Buell fraternity disagree with me, but Buell has NOTHING to win in this class and everything to lose. If Eslick wins, it's "Big deal, the bike is nearly twice the displacement and out-torques and out-powers every other bike on the grid." If Eslick loses, then it's "that bike must SUCK! It gets beaten by measly 600s!!" Ridiculous. I'd rather see Sean Higbee finish someplace other than dead last in Superbike than see this farce in Sportbike.

Tom K. - Buell 1125 March 27, 2009 12:16 PM
It's one thing to "equalize" bikes of varying number of cylinders and engine configurations... It is quite another to allow a Rotax 1125cc twin to run with 600 fours, 675 triples and 848 L twins. That's not "equalizing", that's an outright advantage...

Giancarlo Falappa - Buell 1125 competitive with 600s but marketed as an open classer. March 27, 2009 11:42 AM
Same old BS,I saw this coming all along.Rather than get better DMG will turn the AMA series into the 2 wheeled farce that is NASCAR!G.F.

Leslie D'Amico - SportBike March 27, 2009 10:39 AM
The fix is in! Just like AMA flattrack.

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