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2010 Honda NT700V First Ride

Monday, December 21, 2009



Honda imports another popular European motorcycling offering for 2010. Say hello to the 2010 Honda NT700V.
First it was the Honda SH150i (read about it in the 2010 Honda SH150i First Ride), now Honda continues its trend of importing popular European motorcycle and scooter offerings into the U.S. with the introduction of the 2010 Honda NT700V. Known as the Honda Deauville in Europe, this compact touring-style motorcycle is the epitome of affordable and reliable two-wheeled transportation.
 
From its flat, understated lines in an equally uninspiring but quality Metallic Red or Metallic Silver paint; to the understated performance of its liquid-cooled 680cc V-Twin engine and its simple but effective chassis, to its fully integrated storage solutions, the underlying theme of the NT700V is efficiency.
 
Pushing it off the centerstand and slipping into the elongated saddle, its 31.7 in. seat height is near to the ground and the bike feels slim between the rider’s legs—a key design afforded by the ultra compact architecture of its 52-degree V-Twin engine.
 
The engine is identical to the power unit in Honda’s European Transalp dual-sport bike and the DN-01 scooter/sportbike crossover machine, minus the CVT automatic transmission. It features 4-valve cylinder heads operated by a single chain-driven camshaft as each piston works through an 81 x 66mm bore/stroke and compresses fuel to a ratio of 10.0:1. The engine receives petrol via Honda’s proprietary programmed fuel-injection system, which incorporates twin 40mm throttle bodies paired with 12-hole injectors. Exhaust is then evacuated via a sleek, albeit heavy-looking chrome exhaust terminating on the right-hand side of the machine. Engine power is transferred to the rear wheel via a 5-speed gearbox and a low maintenance shaft final drive. The powertrain is further augmented by a conventional cable-actuated clutch.
 
Punch the throttle and the engine responds by chugging forward at a leisurely pace—a boon for riders with less experience and ideal for riding in the rain or other limited-traction situations. Experienced pilots worry not, for as the revs pile on and the motor gets spinning up to 5000 rpm, the engine cranks out enough acceleration force to allow for safe passing of fellow road warriors heading to their nine-to-five. From there the engine continues to pull you forward in a linear fashion until the 8500 rev redline.



(Above) The cockpit of the NT700V is engineered for the rider looking to pile on the odometer miles. (Center) A liquid-cooled 680cc V-Twin engine and 5-speed gearbox is utilized. (Below) Both saddlebags are fully integrated into the motorcycle and offer 7-gallons of storage capacity.

 
Engine vibration is muted and can rarely be felt in any of the control surfaces aside from a gentle pulsation emitting from deep underneath the steel fuel cell. Equally pleasing is the lack of powertrain noise even during wide-open acceleration. There is some powertrain whine during low-speed deceleration.
 
Cruising down the road at an indicated 60 mph reveals slightly over 4000 revs on the tachometer in top gear. The transmission meshes between gears without fault, but the ‘box does have some play at the shift lever. Finding neutral at a stop is uncomplicated and clutch lever pull is almost weightless while still delivering a sensible degree of feel.

While outright engine performance isn’t spectacular, fuel mileage is. The engine has been tuned to sip fuel and delivered an indicated 48.5 mpg average during the course of our 130-mile ride. Afterwards, the fuel gauge displayed slightly over half-a-tank, so we’d estimate range to be right around 200 miles based on the capacity of the 5.2-gallon fuel tank.

On the road the suspension does a fantastic job of mellowing out the harsh effects of rough pavement. Of all the motorcycles tested recently, this particular machine stands out for its excellent ride quality. While suspension componentry is rudimentary as compared to the adjustable pieces on other high-end touring bikes, it just plain works. Up front is a non-adjustable 41mm telescopic fork. At the rear a single hydraulic shock absorber is used and features a remote preload adjustment knob with 40-click adjustability to compensate for another passenger, or extra cargo.

Tip it into a corner and the NT changes trajectory with very little effort. As speed increases, the suspension begins to show the effects of its soft spring rate and comfort-oriented damping characteristics. At lean, the chassis remains composed but it lacks some feel which makes it difficult to explore the full cornering potential of the bike. Nonetheless, based on its intended purpose (communing and touring) it serves up an adequate, albeit uninspiring level of performance.

Overall, the riding position is very relaxed. The handlebar offers an upright bend and the overall comfort of the seat is unbelievable. The shape of the main fairing keeps the rider’s body well protected from inclement weather conditions. Furthermore, the height of the windscreen can be adjusted in five-positions. To do this, lift and pull up on the windscreen and it will slide into the desired position. This clever feature allows the rider to be completely removed from the wind, if desired. Conversely, if the rider feels in the mood for a more intimate riding experience, move the windscreen to the lowest setting and enjoy the wind in your face.

Instrumentation looks like it was pulled straight off a Honda Accord. It’s highlighted by a set of four analog-style gauges on display from left-to-right: fuel level, speed, rev counter, and coolant temperature. In the center sits a rectangular neutral and warning light display. Above, a smaller LCD display provides the time plus odometer. Two buttons on the bottom of the display allow the rider to cycle through additional functions including twin trip meter and instant and average MPG. However, we wish there was a distance to empty function as well as an ambient air temperature and gear position indicator. It would also be nice if you could scroll through the features with a handlebar-mounted bar as opposed to the small buttons on the gauges. Overall the instruments are exceptionally easy to decipher while riding.



(Above) Steering the NT700V takes very little effort. (Center) Honda offers a full line of genuine accessories including additional storage options and heated hand grips. (Below) We’re astounded by the plush ride offered by the NT700V’s suspension.

The display is flanked by a pair of air vents that allow fresh air to be directed onto the rider. Below are empty sound speaker enclosures as well as small storage compartments (with the left one being lockable) and are sized to fit your mobile phone, keys, GPS, etc. Additional storage comes in the form of lockable saddle bags on either side of the motorcycle.

The bags are neatly integrated into the rear tail of the motorcycle and keep the width of the bike slim. This is perfectly suited for the rigors of lane-splitting in California. Each container offers roughly 7-gallons of storage and either bag was larger enough to hold my Oakley man-purse. And if you pack cleverly you can fit far more gear than you’d think in each container. Another nifty feature is how the containers are linked with an open ski-style pass through that allow you to wedge in lengthier cargo.

In terms of braking, the NT700V uses twin 296mm discs with triple-piston calipers at the front wheel. Out back a single 276mm disc with a twin-piston caliper controls the rear wheel. The system makes use of Honda’s Combined Braking System (CBS), which links the rear brake to the front. For example, when the rear brake lever is depressed the front brake is also engaged. Conversely, when the front brake lever is engaged its effect is completely independent. Additional braking performance comes in the form of the optional $1000 ABS system. This is one of the best features of the motorcycle and is simply a must for every rider.

The ABS system adds a degree of braking stability that makes this an excellent street bike for riders of all skill levels. Whether you’re grabbing a handful of the brake lever or jabbing on the rear brake pedal, or both, the system automatically compensates for your ham-fisted control inputs, slowing each wheel with a higher level of control than your hand, foot and brain are capable of.

Make no mistake about it, the $9999 NT700V could be the perfect utilitarian motorcycle. Sure, it’s not the most entertaining motorcycle to ride, nor will it turn many heads at a stoplight. What it will do, however, is deliver the rider to where he or she needs to be comfortably and without fuss. Plus, it has a decent amount of storage and it doesn’t gulp down the fuel. If you’re looking for an affordable and easy-to-ride touring-style motorcycle, we recommend you check out this latest import from Honda.
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Honda NT700V Dealer Locator
2010 Honda NT700V Specs
Engine: 680cc liquid-cooled V-Twin, SOHC, 8-valve
Bore x Stroke: 81 x 66mm
Compression Ratio: 10.0:1
Fuel Delivery: Fuel-injection
Clutch: Wet multi-plate, cable-actuation
Transmission: 5-speed, chain final drive
Frame: Steel
Front Suspension: 41mm telescopic fork; 4.5 in. travel
Rear Suspension: Hydraulic shock absorber with spring preload adjustability; 4.8 in. travel
Front Brakes: 296mm discs with CBS three-piston calipers
Rear Brake: 276mm disc with CBS three-piston caliper
Tires: Bridgestone Battlax BT020 120/70-17, 150/70-17
Curb Weight: 566 lbs. / 571 pounds w/ABS
Wheelbase: 58.1 in.
Rake: 26 deg. Trail: 4.5 in.
Seat Height: 31.7 inches
Fuel Capacity: 5.2 gal.
Colors: Metallic Red, Metallic Silver; ABS: Metallic Silver
MSRP: $9999; ABS: $10,999

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Comments
pavepilot   May 23, 2013 11:08 AM
I bought my 2010 NT-700v new, but non current, from a dealer in Alabama, January 2012, I couldn't find a red one near me. I use the bike as my daily communter, 5 days per week 50 weeks per year. With an average 300 miles per week, I've ridden 20,000 miles thus far. I average 55 miles per gallon back and forth on secondary roads. My previous bike was a 1985 Honda Nighthawk 650 which also had shaft drive and averaged the same 55mpg over the same course and conditions. The Nighthawk was pushing 90,000 miles and my butt was getting tired of the hard ride and the lack of wind protection in the winter. The NT700v, as you would imagine, is leaps and bounds better than a 4 carb, 28 year old bike. The two biggest problems I have is the lack of an overdrive gear (the 1985 Nighthawk had one) and the baggage catches. The lack of a taller gear is mentioned repeatedly but only with everyday use does the poorly designed baggage catch come to light. The metal catches rest on pillars of soft plastic held in place with self tapping screws. Repeated opening and closing shatters the thin plastic pillars. I've had to spend alot of time rebuilding those pillars out of epoxy, on a new bike! The problem probably won't affect a rider who doesn't open and close the baggage 1000 times each year. I still recommend the bike for anyone looking for fun, reliable transportation, Just don't open and close the baggage compartment too much.
Piglet2010   February 23, 2013 09:27 PM
@ popsss - I believe you are conflating the NT and NC Honda's into models that do not exist (i.e. "NT700S" and "NT700X"). The NT and NC have completely different frames, engines, transmissions, etc.
popsss   June 21, 2012 08:51 PM
I gotta tell you I like the NT700S, way better than any other version of the NT. BUT Honda, in their wisdom, is only bringing it to Canada. Seems like Canada would get the NT700X version and we'd get the S version. I'd like to see the sales stats on the V model. I predict that they'll go away quickly, and resale prices will drop like a rock on Jupiter. I'm sure it's a capable bike, but in general manufacturers are ignoring the midsized bike range with either sport bikes, or Adventure bikes, and not much in between. What about the CB550 of old, or the V45s, and the Seca 650. Have the US buyers gotten so fat that we need big bore bikes to pull us around, or have manufacturers just not figured out how to make a great looking midsized bike?
NT700   January 17, 2012 03:46 AM
Had my NT700 for 9 months. The total package works, and works well! It is a used 2010 ABS model and had 2500 kilometers on the clock when I got it. I have ridden about 5000 kilometers and am loving it. It came with a Givi top box, and I can pack a a shed full of stuff in the top box and the panniers. A very handy feature is the 'pass through' tunnel betweenthe two panniers - tent poles, camera tripod etc. etc. - very clever use of available space! Fuel consumption is great, and the braking is excellent. Even my mates in the club who ride a variety of sport and sport/tourers have commented that it is actually a good all rounder, and makes perfect sense! The engine has screw type valve adjusters and tnat makes it a DIY job. Trust me, it does make sense! My 900 Triumph Thunderbird (a real motorcycle!!) is gathering dust in the garage.
Piglet2010   October 16, 2011 04:30 AM
"Depends on what you want. If shaft drive is not that big a deal breaker, then a Ninja 650R with GIVI bags and a Givi touring windscreen will only cost $7500. Check their sales. People are snatching them up even with a price increase. So, there's a friggin $1,500 savings." - 'Stan' January 2, 2010 02:59 PM . . . . I save about $400/year on insurance on the NT700V compared to the Ninja 650, so that "savings" disappears after 4 years of ownership. The NT700V not appealing to squids and drunken 1%er pretenders has its benefits. :)
Piglet2010   October 16, 2011 04:18 AM
"I know what 550 lbs. and 40 hp together will be like..." - 'Felther' December 22, 2009 10:48 AM and "What an over priced turd! $11K…for what. I don’t need to ride this bike to come to my conclusion any more than I need to eat a turd to find out it will taste bad. I guess some people just can’t draw a logical conclusion based on some obvious stats. 550 lbs for a 680cc bike and only 40hp…please." - 'Judy' December 22, 2009 11:12 AM . . . . . More like 55-hp at the rear wheel. So are "Felther" and "Judy" just ignorant or lying when they under-report the power of the NT700V by 35% or so? As for the NT700V being slow, quarter mile times in the mid 13 second range better all but a handful of exotic cars. Now if you are an immature hooligan looking to smoke tires and ride wheelies at 90 mph, no the NT700V is not for you, since Honda designed it for grown-ups, not children in the bodies of adults and/or those needing a virtual manhood extender.
Piglet2010   October 16, 2011 03:48 AM
"The NT700 is not a sport touring motorcycle. It is a lightweight motorcycle with side cases. It has no touring amenities such as heated grips and seats, adjustable windscreen, decent sized fuel tank and cruise control etc." - 'RiderMan' December 22, 2009 08:45 AM . . . Heated grips are a dealer option, the windscreen is adjustable (did this guy even read the article?), and the fuel tank is large enough for 4 hours riding at US legal speeds between fuel stops (wonder what decent sized is then?). For me, the NT700V is an excellent bike for one-up sport touring. And I actually own one, unlike the "experts" who are only expert at bar racing.
Piglet2010   October 16, 2011 03:29 AM
"My Interceptor has a 5.8 gallon tank, not a 5.2 gallon like the NT. My VFR gets 230 to a tank of regular gas." and "Having owned a 2005 650 Vstrom I can tell you it is NOT aerodynamic at all with such bulbous front end panels. you bobble from side winds constantly at highway speeds of 60-80mph. Also, the snow plow they call a windscreen will cause instability at highway speeds (buffeting) as well. Ride one for more than 3 hours and your wrists and shoulders will ache from the constant correctiing you do to maintain a straight line. TRUST ME! NOT a good design." - 'Stan' on December 21, 2009 06:12 PM . . What a load of misinformation! I just rode my NT700V in 25 mph winds gusting to 40 mph, and had no problems maintaining lane position, even when passing semi-trucks (both oncoming and same direction). The buffeting is practically non-existent, and only occurs at head level with the windshield in the lower positions. And I have ridden mine for 4 hours/250 miles at freeway speeds (59 mpg - no reserve light on!) with no wrist or shoulder aches, as straight-line stability is excellent. So for anyone coming back and reading these comments can see what "Stans's" opinion is worth.
Piglet2010   September 23, 2011 08:47 PM
After a weeks worth of commuting, errands, and exploring back roads, I can not imaging being happy with a bike that lacks locking storage. The only thing I would really like that the NT700V does not have is a 6th gear. Otherwise, ???.
Piglet2010   September 23, 2011 08:43 PM
One week and 300 miles, and having a great time on my new NT700V. Waheed's comments are pretty much spot on. All the haters on this thread have either never ridden one, or are only interested in motorcycles as a toy to show off. Highly recommended to grown-ups.
Piglet2010   September 14, 2011 06:08 PM
I fell in love with the looks of the NT700V/Deauville. Mine is getting delivered tomorrow. :)
Gary Hunter -Honda still has deaf ears!!!!  January 19, 2010 02:35 PM
Riders in the U.S. have been getting cut off by Honda for years from the bikes that they really wanted, the ones that are always ready available in Europe and everywhere else. Year after year we tell Honda why can't we get this, and why can't we get that.....etc, etc, etc.,seems like it never ends and never will. Some countries just never get over the grudge from a couple of nukes.............Oh well???
Fred M. -Replies...  January 11, 2010 04:30 PM
@hipsabad

"but what I was questioning was why manufacturers - rather than customers - choose chain over belt or shaft. Since a chain, at this time, is cheaper, I think it's quite plausible, that production costs are the reason."

Agreed. Another possible additional reason is that dealers love them. Replacing chains and sprockets, selling chain lube, adjusting chain tension (yeah, you and I would not have a dealer do that, but many do) -- all add up.

I'm not a big fan of chains. A lot of mass to move up and down and to accelerate. they pose a godawful threat to the well being of the engine cases and the rider's leg. Either too much chain lube or not enough at any given time. Requires an adjustable swingarm, leading to changes in handling and the potential to misalign the rear wheel.

Erik Buell fired steel balls and rocks into the Ulysses belt drive and it held up great. The belt is almost completely enclosed in a guard in the production Buells. Rocks are a total non-issue.

"Looking around the biking world, the NT700 seems like a great candidate for belt application."

Agreed. The F800 series from BMW uses it very successfully and it's a competitor to the NT700V.

"It sounds from your description that your front brake action is similar to the BMWs of a few years back, with their servo effect. You're saying that the pads you put on the XB12 reduced (eliminated?) that tendency and made the effect more linear. Is the overall braking force reduced as well?"

It's kind of hard to say whether braking force is reduced -- given that there is so much of it. You could still stand the bike on its nose without too much effort. I'll just say that it feels really linear now with the Lyndall Gold pads. It's my understanding that the only downside is more brake fade when used on the track.

"I wonder if all rim brakes have that character or just Buells..."

Buell (now Harley) has the patent on rim-mounted discs and I don't believe other manufacturers license that and use it.

"Finally, if racing Buells switch to chains for racing, does this mean you can swap back and forth on, say, a bike like yours? That would be a great option."

Not quite so easy. It's a different swingarm with adjustability (for chain stretch) that the belt swingarm does not have. Given the huge amount of torque and the prodigious horsepower, I'm not feeling a big need to change gearing on my 1125CR. On the 1125R, it's gearing is better suited to track use and is somewhat tall for the street (about 8% taller gearing than the 1125CR).
Gyro -Motorcyclist  January 11, 2010 08:24 AM
Nice to see new models making it over to the USA, I hope Big Red continues by bring over the Honda Transalp.
EAB -I am not a fan of belt  January 11, 2010 05:40 AM
I am not a big fan of belt drive. Shaft is a drive system where you just lube the splines when you change out your tire, keep the fluid changed out, and that's it. Belts under ideal conditions don't fail or stretch, but even with the new belts you are one big stone away from calling for a tow. The benefits of a chain is that the gearing can be readily changed and the transmission, therefore, can be used on many models as the overall gearing can be changed with final drive only. Furthermore, Oring chains are pretty brilliant in my mind. I have 20K on mine and haven't adjusted it since 200 miles. Keep it clean and it's a fairly bulletproof option. All of that said, for the riding I do, shaft is ideal. The power loss is a bit more than chain or belt, but really, an old fart like me doesn't put a priority on that.
hipsabad -closing thoughts  January 10, 2010 03:24 AM
Fred, my comment about the chain being cheaper than a belt or a shaft-drive was part of a querying of the rationale of manufacturers for choosing a chain over a belt or shaft. It might be true that a chain is more costly over the life of the bike but what I was questioning was why manufacturers - rather than customers - choose chain over belt or shaft. Since a chain, at this time, is cheaper, I think it's quite plausible, that production costs are the reason. Whether one application was more cost-effective than another for the owner seems a separate issue. Looking around the biking world, the NT700 seems like a great candidate for belt application. It sounds from your description that your front brake action is similar to the BMWs of a few years back, with their servo effect. You're saying that the pads you put on the XB12 reduced (eliminated?) that tendency and made the effect more linear. Is the overall braking force reduced as well? I wonder if all rim brakes have that character or just Buells... Finally, if racing Buells switch to chains for racing, does this mean you can swap back and forth on, say, a bike like yours? That would be a great option.
Fred M. -Why so much uproar...  January 7, 2010 12:31 PM
@Pat

"Hard to believe all this pizzing and moaning over a motorcycle. One would think it was another dino vs: synthetic thread."

I think that a lot of the problem is due to younger owners of similar displacement bikes. Younger riders often feel a need to assert that their bike is the best. You see the older guys who own the NT700V: They write about how much they like it, why they bought it, and that's it. They don't bad-mouth the choices of others (e.g., the Versys 650, V-Strom 650, SV650, etc.). They've outgrown that emotional need to have everyone's approval and admiration.

It's also why there is such a fixation on the price when the NT700V is actually a cheap bike. Whether it's $8K or $10K is not a big deal to most of its target demographic. It's not like we're talking about a $30K CVO Harley, a $43K Ducati 1098R, or a $28K Honda Gold Wing. Perspective: The NT700V is $1000 more than a Honda Silver Wing 600cc scooter or Suzuki Burgman 650 scooter. Yes, you can get a V-Strom 650 (with no bags, no shaft drive, less protective fairing, etc.) for $2500 less. Of course, you could also get a Hyosung GT650 for about $2300 less than the Suzuki V-Strom 650.

I'm cool with saying that the NT700V is not the bike for me, but it's clearly a bike that has a devoted following and that has traits that make it attractive to many buyers.
Fred M. -Just further pi$$ing and moaning (just kidding)  January 7, 2010 11:45 AM
@hipsabad "Granted a chain is cheaper, but I can't imagine a shaft being cheaper."

It's the initial price vs. the price over the life of the bike. A chain may be cheaper to buy initially, but a lifetime belt or shaft is cheaper in the long run.

"With sportbikes it's perhaps more common to change gearing, which makes a belt more problematic."

Which is why the racing Buells switch to chains.

"Same goes for dirtbikes, but, more importantly, the stoney environment makes them impractical."

For the Ulysses, Buell fired rocks into the running belt and it held up very well. I was surprised, really. But that was an adventure touring application rather than full dirt.

"Fred, how do you find the brakes on your CR compared to the XB12 or any other Buells you might have ridden?" The back brake lacks feel and stopping power. The front is very similar to the XB12, with a non-linear feel -- braking power increases dramatically relative to lever pressure. But good feel and great stopping power. On the XB12, I changed to aftermarket brake pads and the transformation was spectacular. I expect to do the same to the XB12.

@Stan "Stan - Sheesh... January 2, 2010 02:59 PM
OMG! Fred, you have a lot to say to everyone about absolutely nothing."

And just what have you contributed to this thread?

"And I read way down there about you saying picking up an extra 140-160 more pounds from the ground is a big difference? Uh, no, it's not a big difference when you are properly levering a bike bake onto its wheels."

There will be a point at which adding 160lbs. to the weight of a bike will make the difference between someone being able to pick it up and someone not being able to.

"You not lifting 600-800 pounds, idiot." Someone half as smart as I am is at least twice as smart as you are.

"But if you never had ABS, you don't need it. ABS is a crutch for people that don't know how to brake properly, or avoid an accident to begin with. ABS is only good in straight line stopping."

Although you are completely wrong, I hope that you never buy a bike with ABS -- we don't need you in the gene pool. I know how to brake properly and I'm sure that I'm a better, more experienced rider than you. But I know that I can't modulate the brakes in under 10 milliseconds if the tire under braking loses grip on sand, oil, diesel fuel, or other road contamination. You keep patting yourself on the back and telling yourself how you're the next Valentino Rossi, though.

@EAB: "A cam chain tensioner on a drive chain won't work. Duh."

I never suggested that it would or implied that you did. My point was that a ratcheting mechanism that took up slack would not work because, unlike cam chains, drive chains don't follow a constant length path. The ratchet would latch in at the loosest point in suspension travel and then the chain would be so tight when the suspension moved that something would break.

"However, what I was referring to was something similar to what Buell uses on drive belts."

Buell does not use any kind of automatic, spring-loaded tensioner. The idler wheel is fixed in location and only serves to keep the belt path length constant (to within 1/100" as the suspension compresses).

@Mxster "As my previous comments posted, the bike is still unsuccessful. We have yet to even have one write-up on the one unit I have because of.. the Price. Further proving that this bike is priced too high."

Sales, or lack thereof, at one dealership do not constitute valid statistics. I see multiple posts on the net from U.S. buyers of the NT700V. If you suddenly sold four of them in a month, would that prove that the price was proper? What if some other dealer sold four in a month and you did not? Looking at Cycle Trader, there are 11 NT700V bikes. Only one has a discount -- a modest $500.
RJ -NT700V  January 6, 2010 02:58 PM
Let's just hope the motor has less buzz on the highway than what the thread created... Holy smokes! I just wanted to add one more post with no specific point other than I get the approach Honda - now make it electric. There's no such thing as a perpetual machine but fitted with solar panels and chargers that operate under centrifugal force, battery life can be extended and imagine a gas powered generator for back up not primary use.
Pat -Wow  January 5, 2010 10:18 AM
Hard to believe all this pizzing and moaning over a motorcycle. One would think it was another dino vs: synthetic thread.

Does seem like a lot of money though, but if you like it, buy it. If not, buy something else.
EAB -NT700 Price  January 5, 2010 09:14 AM
I think the NT is going to have a rough go of it in the market, but not because it's not worth what they are asking, but rather what you can get for the asking price, even in a Honda. I know for that kind of money, you can get a slightly used ST or, for that matter, a well taken care of Goldwing with many thousands of miles on it yet with plenty of life left in it. Furthermore, many of these used units have many hundreds, if not thousands of dollars worth of accessories already installed. I know my local dealer has had a 1999 GL1500 completely loaded out with 65K on it, and they only want $6500 for it. If one wants to use it as a commuter with storage, it could be argued that the Silver Wing is a better for this purpose.................That's why no matter how badly I want the Deauville, I just find it hard to take that step financially, especially when I know I'll be able to have my choice in a year or so for many thousands less. My 599 was being wholesaled by Honda for under $6000 a year after it came in and. consequently, the dealer was asking $6500, down from the original asking price of $7399. Knowing that, even if I want one, and I do, I would be a fool to buy it in 2010, right?
RT Rider -Price  January 4, 2010 05:21 PM
I like the NT700 but not at the offered price. If it was priced around 5 or 6 thousand then I would buy one for a commuter. For $4,700 I can buy a brand new KLR650 at the local Honda/Kawasaki dealer. That makes the NT700 at $10,000 for the non ABS look pretty bad. I would consider both bikes a commuter style bike.
hipsabad -spot on  January 4, 2010 02:39 PM
"To everyone, if we looked at cars like we look at motorcycles, we'd all be driving 5000 SUV's with gas guzzling V8's and expecting anything smaller to be about a quarter the price regardless of the features." Illuminating observation, EAB. The perfect example: the POS you called out.
Mxster -NT700 still futile  January 4, 2010 09:39 AM
As my previous comments posted, the bike is still unsuccessful. We have yet to even have one write-up on the one unit I have because of.. the Price. Further proving that this bike is priced too high. Hopefully Honda will drop the price soon because it's now becoming an eye sore.
EAB -Few notes  January 4, 2010 06:28 AM
@Fred: A cam chain tensioner on a drive chain won't work. Duh. However, what I was referring to was something similar to what Buell uses on drive belts. .........@Stan. I have been on the Deauville boards. I'll allow that those guys ride in some stuff that I would never ride in, but given that, they told me "Even in the dry, get the ABS. One panic stop will show you why." The gentleman went on to explain that holding the bike straight up in a panic stop as taught in class is not required. He said you can grab all the brake you want AND steer at the same time, which can't be done with a non ABS equiv. I am still kicking it around as I wanted maroon and it's only available on the non ABS, but it is something to consider.......To everyone, if we looked at cars like we look at motorcycles, we'd all be driving 5000 SUV's with gas guzzling V8's and expecting anything smaller to be about a quarter the price regardless of the features. It is understood that the NT is not a big engined bike and, consequently, isn't the fastest steed in the stable. I have to tell you though, after riding my buddy's Busa for 75 miles during a group ride, speed and displacement isn't everything. I told him I'd rather watch a cat pleasure itself than ride that POS again. Of course, he readily saw the attributes of having a smaller, more comfortable motorcycle in that situation and was not ready to give my 600 back.
Passing By -NT700  January 3, 2010 09:26 AM
I think Honda decided to import this bike because they are not changing the old ST1300 and they wanted to give the buying public something. The ST1300 is way long on the tooth. I can't imagine anyone buying one unless they have been living in a cave the past few years. Honda just released the VFR1200. Nobody really knows what that bike is yet. It is not a sport bike and its not a sport touring bike. Personally, I think it is just plain ugly. Honda should get some kind of award for the VFR's ugly muffler. If I was in the market for a bike to ride to work or around town the NT700 might be my pick except it is about $4,000 overpriced.
Simon & Tesss Moore - Australia -Honda Deauville  January 3, 2010 03:02 AM
This bike has been around in Australia for a while. It shares the same engine as the transalp & with the recently boosted 700 V-Twin engine & is now by far a much better entry level touring bike. As mentioned people are dropping larger bikes more & more here. They are returning back to 600-800cc mid level but its adventure tourers they are picking, I will be surprised if the Honda Deauville makes it back in the 2011 line up here. The Honda Transalp, Yamaha Tenere 660, Suzuki VStrom 650, BMW G650GS & KTM 690 Enduro killed every thing. People just want more for their buck. Multipurp do all units seem to be where its at. Here anyway. I own a Vstrom 650 my wife a drz250
Stan -Beer Baron  January 2, 2010 03:02 PM
The Ninja 650R is a fantastic bike, Super flickable, light weight, responsive throttle, and just fun to ride around town.
Stan -Sheesh...  January 2, 2010 02:59 PM
OMG! Fred, you have a lot to say to everyone about absolutely nothing. I think parrots repeat themselves less than you do. (I'm sure I just set myself up to be quoted by you in your next diatribic rebuttal) The NT700V is no small, light-weight, beginner's bike. When I saw it and sat on it at the dealership it was BIGGER and taller than my Interceptor. It WAS comparable in size to the ST1300, maybe a bit narrower/lighter, and that's about it. And I read way down there about you saying picking up an extra 140-160 more pounds from the ground is a big difference? Uh, no, it's not a big difference when you are properly levering a bike bake onto its wheels. (see proper technique for lifting a bike off its side, they even show it on You Tube) You not lifting 600-800 pounds, idiot. You're leveraging only a fractional amount of the actual weight. In effect, a 600 pound bike and a 800 pound bike maybe feels like 30-40 pounds difference. So yes, I can just as easily lift the ST 1300 as I could or ANYONE could an NT700V. Or a Goldwing for that matter. Take a math class, Fred. I've seen little gray-haired old ladies pick Goldwings up from their sides with NO problems (You Tube). And if you properly lift a bike (facing away from it, not towards it), all you do is Straighten your legs from a bent position and step backwards into the bike. You think a heavy bike like the NT700V is going to inspire confidence in a new rider? If you do, you're more an idiot than I already think you are. As has been said from so many in here already that like the idea of the NT, they are older, more experienced riders, not newbies. Newbies belong on Ninja 250's in an MSF class. They belong on their buddy's beater bike to gain experience in parking lots before they belong near me on the streets in their 600cc crotch rockets. Ya know why they all BUY those? THEY'RE CHEAP. Ride 'em, wreck 'em, buy your second bike. Hopefully a bit more wise for wear and tear about how to act on the streets after you about kill yourself on a bike that is WAY too much for you to begin with, but you buy it cause everyone does...LMFAO. You're not going to see a new rider forking out $10-$11k for their first bike. You're going to see older riders that want a utilitarian machine like the NT. That's the niche, and it's a SMALL ONE! There ARE a lot more bikes out there that are cheaper and offer more for the money. Depends on what you want. If shaft drive is not that big a deal breaker, then a Ninja 650R with GIVI bags and a Givi touring windscreen will only cost $7500. Check their sales. People are snatching them up even with a price increase. So, there's a friggin $1,500 savings. $2,500 if you go with NT ABS. But if you never had ABS, you don't need it. ABS is a crutch for people that don't know how to brake properly, or avoid an accident to begin with. ABS is only good in straight line stopping. Not so good if you're tail gaiting to begin with now, is it?! You have to be off the brakes to be able to STEER around that up and coming rear end of a truck you're too close to! (Wow... look how straight his skid mark is, says the officer to the coroner loading the biker in his car.) ABS is not going to save your ass on a gravel road either. If commuting was all I wanted from my motorcycle I would still have my 650R. It gave me 55-58mpg and was an absolute BLAST in the city or for going 30-40 miles each way to work. Cheap on maintenance too. Honda is NEVER cheap on maintenance. V-twins are more expensive to work on than an inline twin or four. They're generally a pain to try and work on yourself. It will be a good bike for those that want what the NT has to offer, but they're going to pay the price for it, for sure.
Beer Baron -NT700  December 31, 2009 08:20 AM
Nice bike. I love mid-sized displacement bikes and I really want to like the NT700 but it doesn't do much for me. Maybe it's the bland design, I really haven't figured it out yet. I have a real nice 1984 cb650sc that I love riding. If I were to buy new right now I would probably gravitate to a Kawasaki Ninja 650r. After that I can think of five other bikes that appeal more to me than this Honda. Maybe the appeal will grow on me over time like the Versys has.
hipsabad -no mistake  December 30, 2009 10:06 PM
Well, Fred I don't think it was "a big mistake by taking partial blame for anything, thinking that others would own up to their own parts." How others respond does not change the inherent virtue of your action. I can't see why that should matter, unless it's a game - of chess, of war - where a score is being kept, or where the plunder is physical. I had a bike with an enclosed chain: a Yamaha XV920. There are many possible enclosure designs. On this particular one, the bother of checking was more than compensated by the clean environment provided and the reduced lubrication required, e.g. the rain wasn't dousing the chain all the time. You might be right about fingers and pants getting caught in belts being the reason Honda refrains from their use, but wouldn't chains offer the same risk? I had hoped that the successful use of belts on Buells and Harleys would pave the way for a more universal acceptance. Granted a chain is cheaper, but I can't imagine a shaft being cheaper. With sportbikes it's perhaps more common to change gearing, which makes a belt more problematic. Same goes for dirtbikes, but, more importantly, the stoney environment makes them impractical. Fred, how do you find the brakes on your CR compared to the XB12 or any other Buells you might have ridden? I rode an earlier Buell a while ago and found the brakes to be a bit unpredictable. Mind you, the KTM I ride has some crazy Brembo power.
Fred M. -Come on!  December 29, 2009 03:03 PM
@hipsabad "Aw c'mon, now we've come to the point of criticizing each other's grammar and punctuation?" I generally let that go, but when I have to reread a convoluted, complex sentence four times because of the missing punctuation? That's a bit much. "Is there no way to transcend the self-confessed Rotweiler tendency?" Yes: Debate properly and with intellectual honesty. I obviously made a big mistake by taking partial blame for anything, thinking that others would own up to their own parts. On final drives: Belts work well, with Buell being the first manufacturer to offer them on a mass-produced sport bike, and now using them in high torque/horsepower applications that were unthinkable a couple of decades ago. Chains seem to go through rapid "stretch" at the beginning and end of their lives. Then you're looking at well over $150 for a new chain and sprockets. Chain lube is annoying and tends to fling off. And the chain has a lot of mass to spin-up. I agree about enclosed chains. My first Honda had an enclosed chain. While it was good for chain life, it made lubing and checking the chain stretch to be a very conscious effort; you couldn't just glance and see that the chain was getting loose or dry. I like the belt drive on my Buell, but I wonder if Honda is choosing shaft drive for reasons of safety (pants and fingers never get sucked into shaft drives) or market preference (the touring market does love their shafts hehehe). @EAB: Automatic chain tensioners are not technically feasible on drive chains. I won't burden the discussion with why (changing path length as the suspension allows the swing arm to move, ratcheting mechanisms, gross overtightening), but it's a problem that really has not been solved. Even automatic cam chain tensioners have a lot of issues. Heat output: Good points! The higher the stress on the engine, the more heat it seems to produce. Low horsepower-per-cc engines seem to bleed off less heat. A lot of it has to do with designing airflow properly. What annoys the heck out of me is riding home in the cold and having no way to duct the warm air back at me to keep me warm!
EAB -NT vs ST  December 29, 2009 07:00 AM
I have read a few comments in here in regards to comparing to the ST1300. The one thing about going to a bigger engine that seems to get lost in the shuffle is heat. If one stays around 750cc's, the heat isn't unbearable, even in traffic on a hot day. But the one thing my buddy's are finding out is that these larger engines do put off a LOT of heat. The ST1300 is noted for frying your legs, as is the FJ. I haven't read about the Kaw Connie 14 but I have to think that an engine with that much displacement and power has to be an oven. My buddy traded a VT600 Shadow on a Harley Dyna and while he loves his HD, he said in traffic the doggone thing just about kills him. Of all the reasons why I prefer a smaller cc bike, this is probably the biggest.
EAB -To Hipsabad  December 29, 2009 06:53 AM
I have to say that I was with you on the belt drive, or shaft drive for that matter. I always thought a chain was a bad deal. Then I got my 599. Of course, it's an O ring chain. I thought "whatever" but still hated the idea of it. At 200 miles, the chain was flopping so I adjusted it to the loose side. Now I do stretch my arms with the throttle every now and then, but will admit that most of my riding is commuting and highway, and I stay at about 70% of redline most of the time. Nevertheless, after three back tires and 22K miles, I still have yet to move the adjustment nuts since that 200 mile tightening and I swear, the chain hasn't stretched a bit. The only complaint I have is keeping the chain clean, but I do keep it wiped down and a fresh coat of protectant/lube whenever it looks like it needs it. I wonder if the industry ever came up with an enclosed chain, much like a timing chain, if a normal everyday rider, (after the initial "stretch") would ever have to touch it. Heck, enclose it and throw some form of tensioner on it and I bet it would last a good long time. I am no engineer; I am probably missing something.
hipsabad -Peace in the valley - and in the mountains, too.  December 28, 2009 11:02 PM
Aw c'mon, now we've come to the point of criticizing each other's grammar and punctuation? Man, I thought this was a bike forum where we quickly type our thoughts, not a damn university entrance exam. Can't we just chill out a bit here? Is there no way to transcend the self-confessed Rotweiler tendency? Why are we even here on this forum? I totally get your point about economical bikes, Fred. I've been hoping/pushing for the same shift for years. I'm guessing that structural differences affect sales, for example, North America has a bit more sprawl and longer inter-city distances are considered normal commuting/traveling behaviour here than in Europe generally. Plus gas prices in Europe have been much higher than in the U.S. for at least the last 40 years. There's been more incentive to get economical, which is possibly why one sees so many scooters and small bikes in Europe, and why Europe has so much more to offer in the way of interesting economical bikes for sale. The RS250, Tenere 660, CB500F, YZF-R125, Fazer 600, Honda Hornet, TDM900 et al. - I applaud interesting smaller bikes for the simple reason that, for me, half the fun in riding is agility. I would place handling and cornering prowess before power any day. But that preference makes me feel like an anomaly when I read most motorcycle forums. V-Max? B-King? I can only sigh... I do wonder why the NT700 couldn't have been equipped with a belt drive - after all, Honda did it once before. Shaft drive is more complex and expensive, and worse, renders a much heavier unsprung weight, plus the inevitable bevel gear power loss. Failing that, why can't commuter bikes have fully enclosed chains? They did it decades ago on many different models. I fear that it is a matter of fashion - it just doesn't look as 'butch' as an naked chain. Another thing ignored by the typically skimpy, fair weather, bike reviews is alternator output. If you commute/tour then you will get wet and cold and dark once in a while, and this is one place where the NT700 outshines a BMWF800S/ST. NT700 = 452 watts, F800 = 400 watts. More wattage, more accessories: extra lighting, electric vests, etc. This is a good decision by Honda, and one still uncommon amongst the Japanese who have been playing catch-up with BMW in this regard. And I do wish the Japanese could match the gas mileage of, say, an F800ST. Mind you, maybe that just indicates that Beemer owners are all slow and gentle riders;=) The economical argument is a bit ambiguous when I consider that a Honda 599 that I rode a few years ago often struggled to get 40mpg, (admittedly I was frisky with the throttle, even when going for groceries) which makes it not that economical compared to a 30mpg car with which I can carry three friends in warmth and conversational quiet. I'd still much prefer to take a bike, though! Prost!
Fred M. -Bockslit & EAB  December 28, 2009 08:29 PM
Guys, you're not really that far off in your opinions. A modern motorcycle is a damned complicated bit of engineering and I don't think that any manufacturer builds perfect bikes. I've owned five Hondas, a Penton, three Suzukis, a Kawasaki, three Yamahas, two Buells, an Aprilia, and a Hodaka. Not a one of them was perfect. Some were better than others. If I had to pick a Japanese street bike to last me a long time, it would probably be a Honda. They just seem to be built a little better in every respect, from metallurgy to finish to welds. Honda also seems to be better about supplying parts over the long term. Anyone can find design flaws in any manufacturer's line, but Honda does a darned good job -- even though they don't have a single bike right now that really appeals to me.
Brocksilt -EAB  December 28, 2009 01:58 PM
“First, I find it hilarious that you take every problem Honda ever had and treat it like a major travesty and their fault”. This comment coming form someone who had wheel bearings fail at 21K miles and complained about it like it is reason to call the OEM junk. A cracked frame is just a little more major. “You forgot to mention the overheating at 15MPH issue”. Nope, I did mention it look at my last post “over heating,”. “I also recall that Honda fixed EVERY one of them, and they were only the first year”. False, the CCT was not fixed until 2003 Honda even made it a point to say the CCT was a new design for more reliability. The bikes are made to be revved so if operating the bike as meant to be breaks the bike then it is a bad design. Over revving does not cause the failure anyways and on top of that after my CCT was replaced under warranty (which if it was due to operator abuse Honda would have NOT replaced it under warranty) with the new CCT, which had a different part number, I never had a problem with it in the next 7 years and I rode the bike the same way before it broke. And you know you are going to get flamed for this because you are dead wrong. “I have yet to see it happen on a bike with the factory windshield” How many GWs have you inspected or tested for this issue? I will let you in on a little secret on why it happens. When riding in direct sunlight while the sun is facing your back and the sun rays are shinning directly on the speedometer, the sunlight heats up the plastic face of the of the dial and the speedometer itself. When this happens these parts expand very slightly and this interferes with the clearance of the speedometer needle and the plastic face of the speedometer. The windshield, regardless if it is OEM or not has nothing to do with it. I worked at a single line Honda dealer for a number or years. Single line means we only sold and worked on Hondas. Honda makes a good bike, I’ve owned a few and would own another but Honda and their bikes are not perfect. My examples are based off seeing hundreds and hundreds of Hondas pass before me. Your examples are just anecdotal like I said before. The truth hurts sometimes EAB but that doesn’t mean you still can’t enjoy your Honda it just means you have to get off your self fabricated high horse. If you don’t believe me get a part or full time job at a dealer and see just how bulletproof and perfect Honda is.
EAB -You say Honda fixed the problem?  December 28, 2009 06:51 AM
First, I find it hilarious that you take every problem Honda ever had and treat it like a major travesty and their fault. The frame crack GW1800 issue I am familiar with, the factory changed the welding procedure without notifying the engineers. I also recall that Honda fixed EVERY one of them, and they were only the first year. You forgot to mention the overheating at 15MPH issue, fixed by an ECU upgrade. The CBR600 CCT problem, and I know folks will flame me for this, but it's caused by folks that are either ripping the hell out of the bike or don't know how to shift as I have owned TWO CBR600 based bikes (one was a CBR, and my current 599) and neither has had the issue. The CBR600F3 I had went to 45K and I traded it in on the burgman as I thought I needed a commuter (please shoot me now!!) I also have a buddy that rode his first gen CBR to 125K and only had a stator issue at around 90K and yes, a CCT replacement at somewhere north of 100K as a preventative, not a breakage replacement. I am familiar with the speedo issue on the GW. I have yet to see it happen on a bike with the factory windshield. Any touring bike with an aftermarket windshield MUST have the windshield and gauges covered while parked or it runs the chance of a magnification hitting the gauges causing overheating. In fact, I advise folks to cover their gauges and windshields all the time even if it is the factory shield. I have yet to see a GL1800 with factory shield have an issue with the gauges. The GL, as you know, has a large aftermarket following and not all of these parts are engineered fully; so there are issues. As far as the brakes, you know as well as I do that the GW is rated for 450Lbs. You get folks that start pulling 1000Lb trailers, plus a fat arse spouse and bags to the tune of an additional 500-600Lbs and yes, under those conditions, the rear brake fries. But again, a GW loaded properly and NOT overloaded hasn't had any brake problems that I have seen. Even a reasonably loaded trailer and two normal sized passengers work fine, as it has with my buddy's GW18 with a tick over 80K on it. But the one thing that got me was when you said "Honda fixed the problem." Kawasaki had the issue with the VN750 CCT, stator, and regulator for the WHOLE DAMN RUN of the bike, from 1986 to 2007. That's BS. Suzuki fought customers tooth and nail, stating the oil scavanging issue was the owner's problem. Wheel bearing on an FJ? "Yeah, they do that." Buy what you want. I'll buy a Honda, a damn overpriced Honda.
jamil -nt700v good commuter bike but bad price  December 28, 2009 06:37 AM
Owned Deauville NT650V almost solid 8 years. Used for working and short trips until i sold it a year ago and now owned V-strom 650K8. Frankly if the price are equal I still preferred Deauville than V-strom.
DJW -Bottom Line  December 27, 2009 10:13 PM
If You Don't Like It... Don't Buy The F&$#ing Thing! You people need a f^%*ing life. Just ride what you like!
Fred M. -@BBQ'N -- Correction, before you pounce  December 27, 2009 02:51 PM
I wrote: "where you make argue against misrepresentations" I obviously failed to edit out the word "make" after changing the sentence.
Fred M. -@BBQ'N  December 27, 2009 02:48 PM
I don't have time to highlight all of your leaps of logic and purposeful misunderstandings, but I'll pick a couple: "Who is “brutalizing” this guy he chose his SUV and could get a small car and get 35mpg.[?]" Did it ever occur to you that the guy may have bought the SUV when he had a better income and a shorter commute? Or when gas cost less? Or that he may need it for just the reasons you stated in your previous post (carrying three kids and a week's worth of groceries, going through two feet of snow, or carrying five other people)? I suppose you think a Yaris could do that. You wrote: "Wow wish I was this guy who only needs to save a few bucks in order to pay his mortgage because it would take a lot more than that to pay my mortgage." Try reading what I wrote: "Okay, so you lose your job and are forced to take a retail job that pays half as much and is 35 miles from your home." That would mean that you had *less* money. Not no money. That you might need to look for ways (plural) to economize. You go on: "Okay so you lose your job and the smartest thing to do right now is buy a $10K bike with money you don’t have... or a payment you can’t afford so you can save maybe $20 bucks or more a week in gas…" Again, in the hypothetical example, I said that you lose your have been forced to take a lower paying job 35 miles from home, not that you are unemployed. Your income has dropped and it's not likely to come back to where it used to be in the foreseeable future. So, yes, buying an economical 50MPG bike might be a lot smarter than commuting 350 miles per week (17,500 miles per year) in a 16MPG SUV, saving you about $180 per month in gas and adding years to the life of your expensive SUV before you need to replace it. Of course, you may need to look at lots of ways to save money, including clipping coupons, getting rid of the lawn service, etc. "Well I think my work here is done." Great. Now you can move on to some other forum where you make argue against misrepresentations of what others said. P.S. I don't know what you thought was wrong with the grammar you criticized, but I assure you that you were mistaken.
BBQ'N -@ Fred M  December 27, 2009 12:52 PM
I’ll cherry pick like you Fred. “It was a damned good analogy” It was irrelevant. “sales grew to 569,696 cars in 1970, when Volkswagen captured 7 percent of the U.S. car market and had over a thousand American dealerships”. In car terms this is small or niche like so I guess you just proved my point that at the time small cars were not embraced by in large. “Then why did people jump ship to VW and the Japanese cars once they got more exposure to them” This is the part where I have to redundantly reiterate my previous point because you gloss over it because you have no real answer to it. Gas became expensive and exhaust emissions were choking the performance of the big v8 engines, this is a documented fact. “It's not like the general public suddenly sent a representative to Detroit in 1950 to demand that they start putting fins on cars”. It’s not like if people didn’t buy these cars Detroit would keep making them. “Collectors buy cars that are rare or that harken back to their youth -- not because the cars were the finest and most desirable cars available at the time”. I will answer this gloss over cherry pick redundancy with a redundant come back: Those cars were loved and cherished by and entire generation and generations to come some of the retro muscle cars are big sellers nowadays (Mustang, Challenger, Camaro). I guess every one of these cars I see on the road are just collectables and the people driving them are collectors and not driving enthusiasts. “The guy being brutalized by the cost of gas to commute to work in a 16MPG SUV is the very one who should be looking at alternatives like the NT700V” Who is “brutalizing” this guy he chose his SUV and could get a small car and get 35mpg. This small used car would cost less than the NT and offer more utility. Hyundai went from 5.2% to 7.3% thanks to its value-oriented lineup. Nope, it was the guarantee that if you lose your job they would buy back the car. The Entourage model had 355% sales increase and the Hyundai Entourage is a minivan not a small car. Where is your answer to my other article? Just another gloss over cherry pick I guess huh Fred. Lots of small car OEMs had big loses like Toyota, Mazda, Suzuki etc. You cite Maserati losing big yeah that’s relevant. “NO! Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha, and Suzuki have all suffered in this recession, too, dropping production by over 40%”. Thanks Fred you just supported my point that people are not buying bikes in general even the economical and practical bikes the big four make. “Okay, so you lose your job and are forced to take a retail job that pays half as much and is 35 miles from your home. But you would not consider a practical bike to save money”? “You'd rather just say "f*** it, I'll let them foreclose on my house before I'll consider saving money with a motorcycle!" Wow wish I was this guy who only needs to save a few bucks in order to pay his mortgage because it would take a lot more than that to pay my mortgage. Okay so you lose your job and the smartest thing to do right now is buy a $10K bike with money you don’t have or a payment you can’t afford so you can save maybe $20 bucks or more a week in gas…I think that not only do you not read other people’s posts but you don’t even read your own posts because if you did you would or at least should see how demented your logic is. Yet Americans embraced the VW Beetle. The bought millions of economical small cars that naysayers like you claimed would never catch on here. Oh grammar please. I never said small cars won’t catch on, I drive a small car. “We have smart fortwo dealerships. Dodge is rebadging…out a number of Dodge cars, the Dodge Grand Caravan minivan and several Jeeps.” Daewoo made small cars and they’re gone. They are gone because of quality issues same reason these other makes are going away not because they didn’t make enough small cars. Well I think my work here is done. Cherry picking is fun and easy guess that’s why you do it.
Fred M. -Tiburon: Thanks. Peace. And hope you have a great new year.  December 27, 2009 12:43 PM
This discussion devolved in multiple ways and I'm largely to blame due to my rotweiller-with-raw-meat manner of debating. I got the Buell 1125CR for $4995 and it's an absolutely astonishing bike deserving of all of the praise lavished on it by the press. The Honda NT700V will probably sell in modest numbers. It won't be up there with the CBRs and Shadows, but I remain hopeful that it will get a good following. I sat on one and it seemed to be a very well thought out bike. Great build quality and the saddlebags integrated and tucked in in a way that no aftermarket (e.g. Givi, CooCase, Hepco Becker, etc.) bags ever could. Comfortable ergos. Lighter feeling than I expected. Not my kind of bike, but I could see myself looking at something like it in a couple of decades when my strength, reflexes, eyesight, etc. might not be up to a hard-core sport bike.
tiburon -Buell 1125  December 27, 2009 07:31 AM
Fred, I was trying not to make this about you and your bike, but about a $10K Honda 700. I hope you paid the new and improved price for your Buells, $3,000 - $5,000, not list, and they hold together for you for a while is all. As far as all the wins lately, lots of reading on the internets for that too. Nice bike. peace out.





Fred M. -@BBQ'N  December 27, 2009 04:57 AM
"This might be a good analogy..." It was a damned good analogy. VW's U.S. sales grew to 569,696 cars in 1970, when Volkswagen captured 7 percent of the U.S. car market and had over a thousand American dealerships. That's huge for a car that they said would never sell to Americans. "Actually Fred Detroit made what people wanted." Then why did people jump ship to VW and the Japanese cars once they got more exposure to them? Why did VW have 7% of the U.S. market in 1970? You ignore the fact that Detroit's was driving demand and customer taste with marketing, convincing people that heavy cars handled better ("road hugging weight") and that fins were stylish. It's not like the general public suddenly sent a representative to Detroit in 1950 to demand that they start putting fins on cars. "Are these same people being peer pressured into buying big powerful cars from the past at car shows and auctions for big $$ because they don’t like the cars but fear the back lash coming to them at work on Monday morning." Collectors buy cars that are rare or that harken back to their youth -- not because the cars were the finest and most desirable cars available at the time. "What part of bikes in general including bikes that are viewed as economical by people who want these bikes are not selling well do you not understand?" My understanding of this subject far exceeds yours. Oh, and punctuate. "Can you carry an entire load of groceries and three kids in a Corvette or NT700V? Can you operate safely and practically a Corvette and NT7 in two feet of snow? Can you carry 5 or more passengers in the Corvette or NT7? The Accord and minivan offer so much more utility so obviously they will sell more." I have a GMC Yukon. I use it when it snows, when I have a lot of stuff or many people to transport, or when I tow a trailer. But I'm not so retarded that I commute to work in it every day! That idiotic idea that every vehicle owned by a family must be capable of transporting the entire family in all weather conditions is one that we need to fight against. The guy being brutalized by the cost of gas to commute to work in a 16MPG SUV is the very one who should be looking at alternatives like the NT700V "All car sales in all categories are hurting because again people are buying less cars period." On the first page of the article was a ranking of sales by brand. Smart gained 29%. Subaru gained 1%. Kia sales were flat. All others dropped, with Hummer, Bentley, and Maserati dropping the most at -69%, -70, and -71%. Gee, just what I said: Manufacturers of small, economical cars generally suffered the least. In fact, for all of 2009, Hyundai went from 5.2% to 7.3% thanks to its value-oriented lineup. Volkswagen's share rose to 2.1%, from 1.7% on demand for the redesigned, fuel-efficient diesel Volkswagen Jetta TDI. "No, you just made the best argument for Harley’s need to branch out. The import bikes have branched out they sell more than just VTX, Vulcan, Star, and Boulevard." NO! Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha, and Suzuki have all suffered in this recession, too, dropping production by over 40%. If Yamaha can't move ATVs and supersport bikes, how do you think it would help Harley to broaden their market to include ATVs and supersport bikes? What we need is a vibrant market for economical commuting bikes, not a wider selection of toys. "Next time Fred instead of just cherry picking through someone’s post you might want to read the entire post and digest it before you comment back otherwise" I read your post very thoroughly and, frankly, it was comprised of more misunderstanding than insight. "Americans won’t see bikes the same way as Europeans for the same reasons Europeans won’t see bikes and cars the way we do." Here's an article you should read: http://ezinearticles.com/?New-European-Subcompacts-Coming-to-the-United-States&id=3444931 If we see cars so much differently than they do, why are so many of their cars coming where? "Commuter bikes are viewed as economical in Europe because gas is expensive. When gas was at $4.50 p/gal scooter and small bike sales spiked now they are flat. We are not a developing country nor is gas $6.00 p/gal so practical bikes won’t sell well nor will people’s view points. This isn’t too hard to get a handle on." Okay, so you lose your job and are forced to take a retail job that pays half as much and is 35 miles from your home. But you would not consider a practical bike to save money? You'd rather just say "f*** it, I'll let them foreclose on my house before I'll consider saving money with a motorcycle!"? Fortunately, I don't think that most people who find themselves with lowered incomes are that stubborn. All of thes same arguments were made about the automobiles. Yet Americans embraced the VW Beetle. The bought millions of economical small cars that naysayers like you claimed would never catch on here. We have smart fortwo dealerships. Dodge is rebadging a Mercedes Diesel van for sale in the U.S. The Mini sells great here. VW is going like gangbusters selling diesel-powered small European sedans. Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Saturn, and Plymouth are no more. Chrysler has been bought by Fiat, announcing intentions to market existing Fiats in the U.S., while phasing out a number of Dodge cars, the Dodge Grand Caravan minivan and several Jeeps.
BBQ'N -@ Fred M  December 26, 2009 10:21 PM
“All of which are aimed at very different demographics and markets than the NT700V”. And like I said the NT7 is not the same as these other bikes. “I am reminded of the story of the VW… biggest selling car since the Model-T”. This might be a good analogy if I said the Honda NT700V won’t sell well worldwide or if we were talking about the Honda Super Cub but since I didn’t say that this comparison is pointless because the vast majority of the Beetle sales were in Germany, Brazil and other countries. “And then the Japanese started exporting small economy cars to the U.S. The self-proclaimed experts said that they would never sell that Americans want really big, powerful cars festooned with chrome. Comments like those depressed sales for years, pressuring people to buy things with fins lest they be ridiculed upon their arrival at work” Actually Fred Detroit made what people wanted. Are these same people being peer pressured into buying big powerful cars from the past at car shows and auctions for big $$ because they don’t like the cars but fear the back lash coming to them at work on Monday morning. Those cars were loved and cherished by and entire generation and generations to come some of the retro muscle cars are big sellers nowadays (Mustang, Challenger, Camaro). It was the price of gas and the strict regulation of the cars emissions that killed the big gas guzzling car era not a small car revolution. The small cars came at a good time, if gas was cheap and various pieces of legislation wasn’t passed into law the little cars would be a minority just like they were when gas was cheap throughout the 1990s; SUV sales were at record levels in that time period. “It's because bikes are not viewed as economical, practical transportation. They aren't viewed as an inexpensive way to go pick up a couple of items at the grocery store -- the way they are in Europe”. What part of bikes in general including bikes that are viewed as economical by people who want these bikes are not selling well do you not understand? Sales numbers are also down in Europe where people view bikes as practical. "Practical doesn’t tug at peoples hearts in the same way kick ass new toy does." And, yet, there are more Honda Accords and Chrysler minivans sold than there are Mazda Miatas and Chevy Corvettes”. Are you saying that a minivan gets the average person more excited than a Corvette? My point still stands. The person who owns a minivan or Accord needs a minivan or Accord. You don’t need a Corvette or a motorcycle these are want items. Can you carry an entire load of groceries and three kids in a Corvette or NT700V? Can you operate safely and practically a Corvette and NT7 in two feet of snow? Can you carry 5 or more passengers in the Corvette or NT7? The Accord and minivan offer so much more utility so obviously they will sell more. “what sales suffered the least in this economy? Economical commuter cars, of course” http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2009/09/sales-of-small-cars-suffer-as-fuel-prices-remain-steady.html All car sales in all categories are hurting because again people are buying less cars period. Suzuki sells mainly small cars, it’s what they are known for and their sales are down 60%. http://www.automobilemag.com/features/news/0903_2009_february_auto_sales/korean_sales_trend.html "The toys are very profitable just ask Harley." Harley is at the verge of bankruptcy because they don't have bikes that are appealing, affortable, and practical. You just made the best argument for why the industry needs to branch out as is has successfully done elsewhere”. No, you just made the best argument for Harley’s need to branch out. The import bikes have branched out they sell more than just VTX, Vulcan, Star, and Boulevard. “You grossly underestimate the costs associated with bringing even an existing bike to these shores”. I’ll bet’cha it cost less than building a new bike. Next time Fred instead of just cherry picking through someone’s post you might want to read the entire post and digest it before you comment back otherwise people will just have to redundantly reiterate what they said. The NT700V will not change the way Americans view bikes anymore than previous or existing models have. Americans won’t see bikes the same way as Europeans for the same reasons Europeans won’t see bikes and cars the way we do. Commuter bikes are viewed as economical in Europe because gas is expensive. When gas was at $4.50 p/gal scooter and small bike sales spiked now they are flat. We are not a developing country nor is gas $6.00 p/gal so practical bikes won’t sell well nor will people’s view points. This isn’t too hard to get a handle on.
Fred M. -NT700V vs. the toy market  December 26, 2009 08:15 PM
BBQ'N wrote: "We already have bikes like this Suzuki GS500F, V Strom, Versys, FZ6/FZ6R, Bandit 1250, and many other past models." All of which are aimed at very different demographics and markets than the NT700V. "What I am getting at is the NT7 is not going to revolutionize the psyche of American riders." I am reminded of the story of the VW Beetle. Because of differences between the American and European car markets, the Beetle was regarded as sure to flop in the U.S. The Ford company was offered the entire VW works after WWII for free. Ford's right-hand man, Ernest Breech, told Henry Ford II, "What we're being offered here, Mr. Ford, isn't worth a damn!" And with that, Ford missed out on producing the biggest selling car since the Model-T. And then the Japanese started exporting small economy cars to the U.S. The self-proclaimed experts said that they would never sell -- that Americans want really big, powerful cars festooned with chrome. Comments like those depressed sales for years, pressuring people to buy things with fins lest they be ridiculed upon their arrival at work. "All the financial troubles or issues the motorcycle industry is having right now are not happening because riders aren’t buying light weight tourers or commuter bikes, it’s because people are not buying bikes in general." It's because bikes are not viewed as economical, practical transportation. They aren't viewed as an inexpensive way to go pick up a couple of items at the grocery store -- the way they are in Europe. "Practical doesn’t tug at peoples hearts in the same way kick ass new toy does." And, yet, there are more Honda Accords and Chrysler minivans sold than there are Mazda Miatas and Chevy Corvettes. What sales suffered the least in this economy? Economical commuter cars, of course. "The toys are very profitable just ask Harley." Harley is at the verge of bankruptcy because they don't have bikes that are appealing, affortable, and practical. You just made the best argument for why the industry needs to branch out as is has successfully done elsewhere. "the NT7 is not a new bike so if the bike sells well in the current economic climate good if not so what it’s no skin off Honda’s nose." You grossly underestimate the costs associated with bringing even an existing bike to these shores.
BBQ'N -@ Fred M  December 26, 2009 07:16 PM
“If the motorcycle industry is to survive and prosper, it needs to reach beyond the motorcycle-as-expensive-toy mindset. When there is a recession, we need people to think of motorcycles as economical transportation alternatives”. We already have bikes like this Suzuki GS500F, V Strom, Versys, FZ6/FZ6R, Bandit 1250, and many other past models. I understand these bikes are not the same as the NT700V. What I am getting at is the NT7 is not going to revolutionize the psyche of American riders. People do buy bikes for how they make them feel. Even the ones who buy a commuter because they feel the bike will satisfy their needs and is practical and in return feel they made a good decision and are going to get their moneys worth. All the financial troubles or issues the motorcycle industry is having right now are not happening because riders aren’t buying light weight tourers or commuter bikes, it’s because people are not buying bikes in general. These bikes like the NT7 aren’t free so whether more people decide to look at motorcycles as transportation or not won’t matter because people are not buying bikes regardless of what type it is. Americans buy cars for transportation but the car industry is hurting badly also because less people are buying cars. The toy mindset makes up the majority of motorcycle purchases. Practical doesn’t tug at peoples hearts in the same way kick ass new toy does. Ask any OEM and they will tell you they want to sell the “toys”. The toys are very profitable just ask Harley. OEMs love the fact we are buying bikes as toys and wouldn’t want it any other way. Although we are in a recession right now we won’t be in one forever so it’s not a good idea to build a platform around a temporary economic condition. Besides the NT7 is not a new bike so if the bike sells well in the current economic climate good if not so what it’s no skin off Honda’s nose. The NT7 looks like a swell bike but so did the Kawasaki Z750, Suzuki Bandit 600, Yamaha FZ6, Honda CB599 and CB919 and many others but none of them are here today because they did not sell well. So there isn’t a contingent of motorcyclist here who want to punish Honda. Motorcycle-USA is just a random cross section of the motorcycling public in this country expressing the majority view on a bike like the NT7. If this wasn’t true the other bikes I mentioned would be top sellers or at least still offered. Someone could get just as upset about the fact we don’t have very many 50cc, 125cc, 175cc, 200cc and 250cc bikes offered as compared to the rest of the world. Riders would rip on these bikes too calling them girl bikes, disposable bikes, or just a beginner bike and no matter what price they are offered for, riders would say it was too much. I would love to own a Honda CBR125 or a Kawasaki Ninja ZX-2R but it will never happen in this country but I also understand why and don’t let this fact or other people’s thoughts/comments get to me.
Brocksilt -EAB  December 26, 2009 06:07 PM
EAB Honda’s wear out wheel bearings too, especially considering the wheel bearings in the Honda probably came from the same supplier who provides them for Suzuki. And gee how many problems has Honda had with the GL1800. Frames cracking, rear brake rotors cracking, over heating, speedometer needle sticking while operating bike in direct sunlight, CD changer taking craps, proportion valve on ABS taking craps. This is just one model. CBR600s for over a decade have had faulty CCT which wasn’t resolved until the 2003 CBR600RR generation but CBR1100XX and Superhawk also had bad CCTs. The VTX1800 for the first year had spark plugs that fouled prematurely as in less than 2,500 miles, Honda fixed the problem by taking the advice form one of the mechanics that worked at a Honda dealer; use a “hotter” plug. The first year CBR1000RR (2004) had a major problem with two things. First the side fairing on the brake side would discolor because of the excessive heat form the radiator hose that was touching it, the instrument panel was incorrectly calibrated so the speed MPH that was displayed was wrong. The fix was the whole thing needed to be replaced. Don’t forget the issues with the VFR800 (2002-2009). And all these issues have nothing to do with owner maintenance neglect. I know facts sometimes put a damper on one’s belief that is based off personal experience but the fact is Hondas wear out, break down, and have issues just like any of the other Japanese brands. To believe that Hondas don’t do this is inane because if it were true dealer service departments would just be doing routine maintenance but at every dealership I’ve worked at this wasn’t the case.
bikerrandy -I'm with you, Bruce Dowding  December 26, 2009 04:02 PM
I'm on the same page of reality that you are, Bruce, but I have the same lifestyle on a `04 Moto Guzzi 750 Breva. I see this NT700 Honda a copy of my Breva(NLA new) The only difference between the 2 MCs is I had to add a fairng(Rifle), the hard bags(Hepco-Bcker) and a trunk. 35K trouble free miles on it so far.
Fred M. -hipsabad -- GREAT POST!  December 26, 2009 12:08 PM
hipsabad, we're in agreement. And I feel like I owe you, and everyone here, a bit more explanation for why this kind of got under my skin. We're in the middle of a recession. Buell has been shut down. MV is up for sale. Harley is in deep trouble. Big Dog Motorcycles is circling the drain. Japanese manufacturers are pulling out of racing. The publisher of Motorcyclist, Sport Rider, Dirt Rider and several other motorcycle magazines has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. Cycle World magazine, America's most widely circulated motorcycle magazine, was put up for sale by its publisher, Hachette Filipacchi Media. If the motorcycle industry is to survive and prosper, it needs to reach beyond the motorcycle-as-expensive-toy mindset. When there is a recession, we need people to think of motorcycles as economical transportation alternatives. We don't want motorcycles to be lumped in with personal watercraft and powered paragliders. With the NT700V, Honda has just introduced a bike that very much appeals to the practical transportation market. They've done it in the middle of a recession when other manufacturers are scaling back new offerings. And this forum is filled with messages criticizing everything from the horsepower of the bike to its price. We've got snide remarks about it being a bike for people without much motorcycling skill or experience. We've got posts urging people to not even consider buying this bike and to, instead, buy anything from a Versys 650 to a 150hp+ Concours C14. We have people who are bad-mouthing this bike because they, personally, don't care about many of its features that are important to most commuting and touring riders (hard luggage, shaft drive, great wind protection, available ABS, and comfortable ergonomics). It's like we have an entire contingent of motorcyclists who want to punish any manufacturer that tries to broaden the appeal of motorcycles.
Fred M. -Low horsepower bike doesn't mean beginner bike.  December 26, 2009 11:20 AM
"OK, sure Fred, it's the perfect bike for some, just like a Pacific Coast PC800... my pastors wife rode one, till she gained more riding skill." Tiburon, your first post on the Motorcycle USA forums here was in mid 2007. It was entitled "New to everything about motocycles[sic]." In it, you asked "hi,before buying a bike,what ill need to know other then learning how to use one,like license,classes,etc,etc...?" That means that you have been riding about two and a half years. I started riding motorcycles in the early 1970s. The vast majority of PC800 and NT700V owners have far more experience and skill than you have developed in your couple of years of riding. Take NT700V owner Bill: He's got 55 years of riding experience, has owned five Goldwings, two BMW's, a Kawasaki, and many other bikes (even a '49 Indian). He spent 25 years as a motor officer riding police bikes. Are you thinking that, once he gets your level of riding skill, he might want to move on to some bike other than the NT700V? You wrote: "Enjoy it. After All,It's not what others think of you as you're seen going down the road on it, it's your enjoyment that really matters." It's not my kind of bike. But if you see a red Buell 1125CR or XB12Ss fly by you on a twisty road like you're sitting still, honk twice so I know who I just passed. ;)
Mxster -Thank You Tiburon  December 26, 2009 10:05 AM
Thank you for backing the PC800 theory. Its absolutely true. At least someone figured it out.
Tiburon -sure Fred  December 26, 2009 08:01 AM
OK, sure Fred, it's the perfect bike for some, just like a Pacific Coast PC800... my pastors wife rode one, till she gained more riding skill. Enjoy it. After All,It's not what others think of you as you're seen going down the road on it, it's your enjoyment that really matters.
hipsabad -continued...  December 25, 2009 01:23 PM
And the thing about the NT700 for me, regardless of whether I consider it priced too high or not, regardless of whether I don't like this design element, or like that one, is that it is a bike that makes sense for riding more, rather than less. Is it for me? Not necessarily, but I can certainly see its charms.
Fred M. -Right. An 2-wheeled Accord. Just what it's designed to be.  December 25, 2009 01:18 PM
Tiburon wrote: "it is a two wheeled accord. overpriced. underpowered." The price and power are right for the market. That's why Honda has been selling versions of this bike for a decade. "Buy a DL1000. Put some Givi bags on it. keep the change for a trip. Tear up the asphalt getting to the dirt roads." No, you should replace your bike with a restored BSA Gold Star. Enter in bike shows. Get trophies. No, I don't care if that's what you want a motorcycle for. Someone else thinks that's the motorcycle you should buy and what you should do with it. Tiburon? Wasn't that the name of that bland, underpowered Hyundai that they just discontinued?
hipsabad -awesome post Bruce  December 25, 2009 01:12 PM
Spot on. The merit of bikes is in the riding and living with them. The experience that really opened my eyes was buying a DRZ400 after tasting a friend's DR350 and finding that this bike is an amazing do-it-all rig that gives me more smiles in more situations than my KTM and CBR - with the exception of not being a good highway hauler (not enough power). This bike is my favorite for urban scratching and tighter back road stuff, especially when the road surface is - how shall we say- less than perfect. This bike has re-ignited my desire to ride every day of the year - which is a possibility where I live. The experience has taught me that less power and less weight can be just as satisfying, if not more so, than the opposite. One of my former bikes, a 2004 R1 had it's moments of appropriate glory, but too few and far between, especially in an urban setting. Which, I find, is where I do a lot of my riding. For traveling long distances it's not applicable at all, my KTM 950SM is the pick or the CBR - both of which have been modified for touring requirements. All the manufacturers have both excellent design elements and some not so excellent. Regarding their product lines, some are more narrowly focused and some are quite broad in what they sell. Manufacturers like Buell or KTM do not build lawn mowers or generators. The bikes they do build have a distinctive flavor. I like that flavor. On the other hand, I've also liked my girlfriend's Honda Civic for transportation purposes. It's not what you ride, it's how much you ride.
Tiburon -it's an accord  December 25, 2009 08:24 AM
it is a two wheeled accord. overpriced. underpowered. cute though. what is that, 8K valve check? I'd have it in the shop every 6 months. June and January, oil, filter, valve check. etc. just like my granny's accord. Buy a DL1000. Put some Givi bags on it. keep the change for a trip. Tear up the asphalt getting to the dirt roads.
Fred M. -Owners vs. Critics  December 25, 2009 06:48 AM
Bruce, The comment authors here are largely split into two groups: Owners who are supremely happy with their NT700Vs and horsepower-focused critics who have never even ridden an NT700V. Choosing a light touring/commuting motorcycle based on horsepower per dollar spent is like choosing a wine based on which one offers the most alcohol for the money.
EAB -My own experience  December 25, 2009 06:34 AM
I have owned two Yamahas, two Suzukis, and one Kaw over the years. All of 'em couldn't handle the riggers of high mileage touring and day to day commuting at the tune of 20,000 miles a year. After the dealer told me that the Kaw having the stator go out at 21K was "expected" and "normal" and that the regulator should be replaced as well because "it's going to go out soon" I junked it. When the Burgman scooter, which I bought for commuting, needed a rear tire..the forums told me "Hey, replace the wheel bearings as they are worn by now." That blew me away. Then at 25K folks were having issues with the internal muffler collapsing and causing issues. They also had an issue with the engine scavenging the crankcase causing the engine oil to go out the exhaust and the engine to blow up. Burgman 400. Go look it up. Hard pill to swallow after you have a Helix run to 100K and be sold for the same $$$ you paid for it at 20K. The Yamaha's never had any specific issues like that, but at less than 40K they started having issues with stuff that I never saw on a honda IE wheel bearings and exhaust leaks. The reason Honda is the # selling bike in the UK is because those folks ride their bikes all the time and in all kinds of weather and the other Japanese bikes won't cut the mustard. In this country, where street cred and performance numbers trump durability, Honda is overpriced. It's cool, to each their own, but please don't try to tell someone that actually has ridden the bag off of many brands of bike and is meticulous about care what holds up and what doesn't. Most folks don't take care of their ride so the service department gets to deal with it. That's why saying what you worked on at the dealer isn't an accurate representation of reliability, now is it? For real riders, price simply doesn't matter. When you have a few years and over 50K on the clock of your bike, you don't remember the dollars spent. But when the damn thing starts nickel and diming you before you have four years of riding, you will be cussing. I know I was.
Bruce Dowding -A Long Term Owners Viewpoint.  December 25, 2009 03:12 AM
Guys guys guys.......most of the other comments seem to be missing the point. If you're really anal about bhp or lean angle or it-makes-me-feel-my-dick-is-bigger, this is not the bike for you. If you want to see the horizon rush towards you, catch momentary blurry glimpses of scenery; if you want to pose; if you plan to throw your bike down the road, this is not for you. Pass on by, nothing to see here. No dayglo stripes. No underseat exhausts. No mean-looking headlight cowl. This bike was not designed for you. It will not be marketed at you. You will not buy it. It will not give you karma. I bought one. In fact I have bought two over the years (I had the older 650 version about 10 years back). I've also had big-twin Harley's; ST100 Pan European, and several lightweight "scratching" bikes. I've had the current NT700 (with ABS) for about 18 months now. I paid about 10% UNDER list price for it, and got a big top-box thrown in on the deal. It's done about 24,000 miles so far. In all weathers. Touring across Europe, and all over Spain. Commuting, towns, big cities. One-up and two-up. Form 18 months of ownership and riding experience I can vouch that what it DOES do is simply what it says on the box:- Supremely comfortable, relaxing ride. Utterly and totally reliable. Extremely good weather protection. Very good luggage capacity, especially with a gib top-box added (for which there's actually lots of room behind the pillion part of the saddle). The ABS braking system is absolutely fantastic....it might very just save your life. Maintenance costs are very very cheap...and the minor servicing work is simple DIY. Tyres last for ages. It commutes superbly. You can tour two-up on it in comfort. It won't get stolen. The price of parts are (relative to other bikes) not financial rape. There's a reasonable chance that it'll get to 150,000 miles on the original engine and gearbox. Fuel economy is excellent. Now the engine is loosened up I can get over 60 mpg (european gallons) on a touring run, two-up. And fill-ups are over 200 miles apart. Pannier luggage is built in, and very effective...no buying as an extra. Now, if those factors do weigh more for you in the real world than bhp, sex appeal, shiny stickers, robocop leathers, or a bandana, then it's well worth a look/test ride. I can heartily recommend it. If not, then of course it's never going to be a bike that appeals to you....so don't worry about it.
Mxster -oy  December 24, 2009 08:01 PM
Fred, Ok everyone knows your moot point. You have defended this bike till your blue in the face. We understand that the target crowd for this bike is mature middle aged men. And I will Guarantee that the only NT700V I have will sell to a mature middle aged man. But the whole and only point to my statements are that it will not be successful. That is the only reason I posted a comment on this page (besides Adams fruit boots). It will be about as popular as the Honda Pacific Coast. Which has a striking resemblance to the NT700V. And the only people who bought that bike is... mature middle aged men.
Fred M. -Cost  December 24, 2009 06:01 PM
Mxster, you wrote: "In the consumers eyes money overrides just about everything in today's market." In the tech industry, there's something called "Total Cost of Ownership" -- TCO for short. Many of the NT700V buyers get this concept. They write about the low cost for insurance, almost zero maintenance shaft drive, very good fuel economy, inexpensive scheduled service, and proven reliability and longevity (not of all Honda brand vehicles -- specifically of the NT700V). You work at a dealership, so I bet you've seen the young guys who buy the highest performance bike that they can barely afford the payments on and then don't have enough money to pay for the insurance, tires, and maintenance.
Fred M. -Um, NT700V?  December 24, 2009 04:33 PM
Broksilt, The NT700V Hondas already do the 1/4 mile faster than most Corvettes and top out at 125mph. That's enough performance for many riders. While you might have more fun on a Concours 14, many of the buyers of the NT700V would have *less* fun on a C14 and/or like the bike less than the one they bought. The older, smaller, or less experienced NT700V rider might not prefer a bike with 150+ horsepower that weighs over 100 pounds more. The guy splitting lanes on his commute to work might not want a three and a half foot wide Concours 14. The guy who rides for economical transportation might not want to pay three times as much for insurance, get 30% worse fuel economy, and replace larger, more expensive tires more often. The person who is uncomfortable with the "Supersport Touring" ergonomics of the C14 might not be happier were he to choose that over his NT700V. In short, the NT700V rider who thinks that the C14 is too ugly, loud, heavy, uncomfortable, and/or violent in its power delivery, might not want a Concours 14 rather than the NT700V. Comparing the Concours 14 and the NT700V, you write "It’s a choice between hamburger or prime rib." No, it's a choice between the bike you want one that you don't.
Brocksilt -EAB you missed the train  December 24, 2009 02:13 PM
“I think comparing a 250K mile bike from Honda to a LUCKY if you get 50K bike from Kaw based on price isn't fair,” “they would do better to buy a mid 90's Gold Wing 1500 or a used ST1200 or 1300 as even used with 50K on the clock they'll both outlast the new zero mile Kaw and Suzuki bikes you speak of”. You know this to be true because why? Did you own a few thousand Kaws or Suzukis and put 50K+ miles and they blew up. Anybody can own one make of bike and have issues with it or own another make of bike and not have issues with it, that doesn’t mean if your Kaw was unreliable after 50K miles that all Kaws are crap. Your example is anecdotal at best. You’re one of those Honda-superior purist and that’s fine because Honda has spent tens of millions of dollars marketing themselves as being such so there are bound to be some true believers. If someone was looking for a Kaw Concours 1400 why would they want to substitute it with a mid 90s GW? Now let’s pretend you did an exhaustive empirical study and found out that the Honda will last five times longer than the Kaw (which even the notion is silly because Honda makes their bikes out of the same materials found on this earth as the other factories do, the Japanese do a wonderful job of taking their competitors bikes, and cars, apart and “borrow” many ideas and improve there bikes to meet close to the same standards) but let’s say you’re right. You’re argument is horsepower is not a measure of good value but instead how many miles you get out of a bike is. Well what about the quality of each mile ridden. You would have a much better ride with the Kaw 1400 than you would with any 15 yr. old GW. It’s a choice between hamburger or prime rib. The Kaw 1400 would and does last more than 50K miles go to any Concours forum or ride with people who own one and see for yourself. If the Honda NT700V did last five times as many miles as the Kaw I would still buy the Kaw because I would be getting 25 times the fun and satisfaction. Oh, I did own a few Honda’s in the past and the first Honda I owned, bought new, had a cam chain tensioner failure in the first 3200 miles that I owned it; did you know that CCTs on Hondas are disposable? I guess all Hondas are crap.
Mxster -Also  December 24, 2009 01:46 PM
I have to say that this quote will answer every comment on this page. "There's and ass for every seat". You may not ride a pink Schwinn Hope 50 scooter but someone will.
Mxster -at EAB  December 24, 2009 01:30 PM
Well I see you favor Honda because of your personal experience with durability. But there are people out there who are just like you that favor certain brands due to their own experiences. The truth is my service department sees its equal share of all brands, including Honda. No brand is "bullet proof" I'm sorry, I see it everyday. New or Old bikes. And I know this will be a shocker but Suzuki has shown to be the least brand I see. AND I know someone will say "well its cuz less people buy Suzuki" save your breath its Not True. For every one Honda at least 8 Suzuki's are sold. Mostly because of Price. In the consumers eyes money overrides just about everything in today's market. I rarely see someone buy a bike and not care what it costs. And its usually the old guys buying fully decked out $32,000 Lehman Trike Gold Wings lol.
GAJ -Honda = bulletproof.  December 24, 2009 11:42 AM
First, nice to see some owners chiming in who are happy with their machines. Time will tell if it suffers the fate in the US of the very competent Pacific Coast. My first bike was a 50cc Honda in Belgium and I had a Nighthawk 750 that I was very pleased with before I sold it to a friend. Neither bike was significantly "better" in terms of build quality vs. the Yamahas and Suzukis I've owned, and a notch below my BMW bikes. My wife has driven two Honda cars that have been bulletproof...both Manual Transmission cars, (the six speed manuals are fantastic). My family and company have owned 4 Honda cars with auto trannies...EVERY SINGLE ONE has had a tranny replacement...usually right after the warranty runs out. Hondas are great, but they are not all perfect.
Fred M. -NT Rider: Regrets?  December 24, 2009 08:59 AM
NTRider, many of posts in this forum recommend buying a less-expensive bike, like a Versys or V-Strom 650, and maybe adding on accessory soft or hard luggage. Having put a few thousand miles on your NT700V, do you regret not purchasing one of those bikes instead? Others seem to feel that the horsepower of the NT700V is not adequate. Karl even wrote "55 horsepower would be good if it was the 1950s-1960s but it’s not 1950." Do you think that the NT700 has enough power? Lastly, you mention comfort, something that I've not seen mentioned by the Versys/V-Strom contingent. Was comfort more important to you than performance?
EAB -You all are missing the boat  December 24, 2009 07:58 AM
Horsepower. Really, how many of us shop for cars based on such figures? Would one buy a Chevy Tahoe over a Honda CR-V because "it has more HP and is bigger?" Well, not if they dont' want the size and weight. Really, a new Honda CR-V, one rebates and such are figured in, are not that much less than a large SUV, so why would one buy a CR-V. I do agree, MXSTER, that the Honda is priced right up there with the Kaw, but why shouldn't be? I owned a Vulcan 750. Did you know the voltage regulator and stator on the V750 are disposable? I think comparing a 250K mile bike from Honda to a LUCKY if you get 50K bike from Kaw based on price isn't fair, and I think if you are a bike guy, you know that. As far as the power and size, if one needs a bigger bike, they would do better to buy a mid 90's Gold Wing 1500 or a used ST1200 or 1300 as even used with 50K on the clock they'll both outlast the new zero mile Kaw and Suzuki bikes you speak of. I would compare the high mileage Honda's I have owned in the past to high mileage Kawasaki, Suzuki, or Yamaha but I have yet to see any. As far as HP for touring, I did over 30,000 miles of touring on a 1979 CX500 Deluxe with the full Vetter touring kit, the same one they threw on the Gold Wing. It had 50HP at the crank, but it would cruise at 75MPH all day and even with the WindJammer and two radio antenna it still got over 55MPG. And the day I sold it, it had 76K on it and ran like a watch, used no oil, and the 25 year old exhaust had not a spec of rust. My buddy's two year old Buell has more rust on the muffler than my 25 year old, 76K mile Honda had in total. You get what you pay for in life. I gave over 400 bucks for a lawn mower in 1983. My buddy still uses it. I bought a similar model five years ago for around 500 even though one can buy a self propelled mower WITH MORE HP from Wal Mart for about less than 200. You can bet I don't complain about lack of HP or the money it cost to buy quality.
Fred M. -Karl, it's not intended to be a high-performance bike.  December 24, 2009 07:51 AM
Karl wrote: "Why not compare it to another modern liquid cooled v-twin bike like the VStrom 650. That bike makes more than 55 horsepower. With that comparison it makes the Honda look underpowered..." ___________________ The Ducati 696 has one of those 'primitive' air-cooled V-twins and it makes 80hp. The Aprilia SVXV550 makes 70hp from a 549cc V-twin and and it weighs almost 200 pounds less than the V-Strom. The GSX-R600 makes 105hp at the rear wheel and it's got a smaller engine and weighs over 100 pounds less. The SV650 has 7 more horsepower than the V-Strom using the same basic engine. Why did Suzuki's engineers fail so badly on the V-Strom? How can they be so incompetent? Were the stupid engineers assigned to the V-Strom and the good ones put on the SV650? Or could it be that, like Honda, Suzuki tunes the powerband to the intended use of the motorcycle? (See: http://www.lookpdf.com/download.php?code=a411d15693g0de50a600b) My 1125CR makes over 120hp at the rear wheel and weighs far less than the V-Strom -- so the V-Strom 650 is really underpowered (and don't even make excuses about displacement - there are no displacement classes on the road). ___________________ motorcyclenews.com has reports on both bikes. The 1/4 mile time was 12.2 seconds on the NT700V and and 13.2 on the V-Strom. Top speed was 125mph on both. Are you aware of roads in the U.S. where that level of performance would not be adequate for a touring motorcycle? ___________________ As the review on topspeed.com said, "But the fact is that the Honda NT700V addresses to riders who have long surpassed the “horsepower crisis” and prefer the joy of riding in complete comfort and well protected by wind and weather for miles and miles every day." ___________________ That sums it up nicely.
NT Rider -NT700  December 24, 2009 07:03 AM
I have read the posts here and would just like to add something from having ridden 6,000 miles on an ABS NT700, including 1100 miles over 6 days touring (yes touring). OK not huge mileages but having ridden 230 miles between refuels without a stop and still beig able to walk I can attest to the comfort of the ride. Having ridden it on frost shattered roads and high crosswinds I can attest to its stability - and I ride with large panniers and a top box one and two up. I commute five days a week on it across town and where the mirrors fit the luggage will follow without a problem. It is 25% quicker to and from work in traffic than my car. It is not a bike to out drag anything apart from 90%+ of the cars on the road. It is easy to handle (though don't drop it because it is not light to pick up again). It has presented me with exactly zero problems so far. It is very good at what it does and no better than any other bike doing what it wasn't designed for. It is the Honda Accord of the bike world even down to he triangular exhaust and clocks. If you enjoy dressing like a power ranger and riding everywhere with the front wheel in the air, do not buy one, its not quick by motorcycle standards. If you like dressing up in leathers and pretending to be a bad boy at week ends, do not but one, it doesn't do boneshaking like a Harley does. If you like playing with gadgets instead of looking where you are going, do not buy one, even the European aftermarket isn't exactly crowded compared to a 1200 RT, ST 1300, S14 etc. If you are put off by the $11-$12k price tag, guess wht, do not but one. If you are looking for a reliable, comfortable, reasonably economical machine that you hav to use roadcraft to bustle along consider, Test ride it and what you consider the competition to be. If you don't get it move on. Stay safe ladies and gentlement and seasonal cheer to you all.
hipsabad -kudos  December 24, 2009 12:41 AM
Are we seeing signs of détente on Fred's part? If so, nice move. It's good for the forum.
lcanderson -grogan's right  December 23, 2009 10:25 PM
chuckle... it's true, Fred is like Bill O'Reilly. Fred/Bill will brook no disagreeing with him. His way or the highway. He will stoop to cheating when it suits him but otherwise will browbeat others when he thinks he's sure he's right. We 'know' he's a tough guy because he can't stop boasting that he bought a Buell.
Karl -My point Fred  December 23, 2009 10:20 PM
My point, which was lost on you, is the bikes you mentioned are not modern. Justifying the amount of horsepower the Honda makes by saying it is just as powerful or more powerful than these “modern” bikes is ridiculous. Why not compare it to another modern liquid cooled v-twin bike like the VStrom 650. That bike makes more than 55 horsepower. With that comparison it makes the Honda look underpowered that’s probably why you chose some dated air cooled bikes. The Versys may only have 5 more horsepower but it also weighs 112 lbs less, can you say power to weight ratio. The bikes from the 50s and 60s didn’t weigh in at 566 lbs either. BTW I have a TL1000R with 52,893 miles on it and the motor runs great so you don’t need to dumb down a motor for longevity, Okey, dokey.
Fred M. -Karl, what's your point?  December 23, 2009 08:04 PM
Karl wrote: "Sure 55 horsepower would be good if it was the 1950s-1960s but it’s not 1950." It's good now, too. And it's within 5hp of what the much-praised Versys 650 makes. Do you really think that Honda tried to get more horsepower out of the NT700V engine and just failed? You don't think that they analyzed the market and chose to make a docile power band for the NT700V? You don't think that they were more interested in longevity, economy, and reliability? Okey, dokey.
Fred M. -Right. You all read all invoice slips before posting anything.  December 23, 2009 07:39 PM
Bromin wrote: "I have worked at a dealership before and it’s not a matter of remembering the time frame. That is what invoice slips are for." Really? Motorcycle dealers have actual records of when they receive things? That's quite the unique business model. "I guess you don’t have very much experience with that kind of stuff and since you don’t maybe you shouldn’t doubt others who do." Except that his response confirmed what I mentioned: Honda only started delivering bikes in November, less than two months ago.
Karl -NT700V Horsepower  December 23, 2009 06:22 PM
V-Star 1100, Moto Guzzi V7, or the 883 Harley Sportster. Modern? These bikes don’t have modern designs. On top of that all these bikes are air cooled so I would hope the liquid cooled Honda has as much or more horsepower. Sure 55 horsepower would be good if it was the 1950s-1960s but it’s not 1950. Bikes did not make 55 horsepower back then because they wanted to it was because they had no choice. Those bikes also had tires as hard as rocks maybe we should bring them back too.
Bromin -fred m reread Mxster's 2nd post  December 23, 2009 05:25 PM
I have worked at a dealership before and it’s not a matter of remembering the time frame. That is what invoice slips are for. I could check today what date we took our first Suzuki RF900 in. I guess you don’t have very much experience with that kind of stuff and since you don’t maybe you shouldn’t doubt others who do.
Mxster -Fred  December 23, 2009 04:37 PM
Well to fill in the blanks Honda did deliver our first NT700 to my dealership in November. We got it on Nov. 2nd cuz it was the first Monday of that month. I could have said I've had it for 51 days and 10 hours but 2 months was easier. Some dealerships get products sooner than others based on their sales. For example my shop is one of the first to recieve the new BRP Can-Am Spyder Touring model. Although we can not sell it till the beginning of next year.
Fred M. -NT700V Horsepower  December 23, 2009 03:39 PM
The crank rated horsepower of the NT700V is 65. I will defer to MisterTwister's greater experience and assume it's going to have something like 55 at the rear wheel. Put that into perspective: It's more horsepower than old-school "big" bikes like the original Norton Commandos and Triumph Bonnevilles. It's more than many modern bikes like the V-Star 1100, Moto Guzzi V7, or the 883 Harley Sportster. That seems more than adequate for the intended market. I believe that many of sport riders are underestimating the value to touring riders of things like shaft drive, good wind protection, compliant suspension, integrated hard bags, comfortable ergos, and engine longevity. Again, not my kind of bike, but it offers a lot of features that are highly valued in that market. (@Bromin: Not implying that at all. Just curious as to whether Mxster might have have been remembering the time frame wrong. It's not like one always remembers the day when they saw their first NT700V. :)
Bromin -fred m reread Mxster's post  December 23, 2009 03:01 PM
From the looks of Mxster’s post he was telling you what his customers were saying about the Honda and not what he thinks about the Honda. His belief that the Honda is overpriced comes from what customers have told him. We're at the end of December so that would be about two months. Are you implying Mxster is full of BS?
Fred M. -Answer to paulgrogan and Mxster  December 23, 2009 02:34 PM
Mxster: Honda only started delivering the bikes in November (according to their press release). paulgrogan: I'm flattered by your interest, but you missed the mark with your guess. "Overpriced" means that the price is more than the market will bear, not that the vehicle doesn't appeal to you personally. I would much sooner buy a Triumph Speed Triple for $11K than buy a Victory Hammer 8-Ball $14K. But that doesn't mean that I should post on forums that the Victory is "overpriced" because I can get a higher horsepower, lower weight, better handling Triumph for $3K less.
ZGguy -Felther - Fred M  December 23, 2009 01:46 PM
Get a room you two!
paulgrogan -the Ayatollah Fred  December 23, 2009 01:46 PM
Wow, what an exchange! Why are you so uptight, Fred M.? What's eating you? You say, "I started this because I'm tired of idiots acting like their criteria for judging bikes should also be everyone else's." Is this really the reason for all this prickly defensiveness? I ask because you're doing the same thing: You are saying your criteria are the correct ones. With all those comments you made about other men in washrooms, you're maybe hiding some, you know, repressed homoeroticism - BTW, I have nothing against alternative sexualities - because otherwise, how do we understand these inexplicable hostilities toward others? Perhaps this also is what makes you argue fallaciously always in favor of 'authority'? Corporate interests, actually. Why can you not have your own ideas, but more importantly why lose your composure when others have preferences other than your own? Are others only allowed to express preferences when they agree with your own? Must others be forced to purchase, for example, Boss Hosses before they can indicate their preference not to own one? Because you will not allow any 'bad-mouthing' of the Boss Hoss. You seem to be saying that if you can't say anything nice then don't say anything at all. BTW, that rule applies to others, not to you, right? You're kind of a nosey bully like Bill O'Reilly: When he says "it's not all about you", what he means is, it's all about him.
Mxster -NT700 Over priced  December 23, 2009 12:54 PM
I too believe this bike is over priced. I have one NT700 in my showroom now for about 2 months, and not too many people have shown interest. Mostly because the 2009 Kawasaki Concours 14 sells for $13,499. Only a difference of $2,500 Which isn't a huge difference once you've gone over the $10K mark. And its a hell of alot more bike for the money. Even the noobie riders arent showing interest because its priced so high for so little. It just doesn't weigh up to its competition with its minimal options and capabilities. Customers have even told me they would rather pay for a Suzuki Bandit 1250s ABS for $9,799 and spend a few hundred bucks extra on removable hard bags with more luggage space. Which is still why we only have one in our inventory.
MisterTwister -RIGHT ON FRED N!  December 23, 2009 11:01 AM
You know your stuff. the guy your arguing with is like my worst customers. they complain when a magazine gets a higher dyno number than we got on their bike. they say our dyno is wrong because our competition set their dyno to read hi. the guy is totally full of it. a 30% hp loss at the rear wheel? how many dyno runs has he done on shaft drive bikes? 65hp at the crank will probably be like 55hp at the wheel, maybe as low as 50. I ran one buell 1125 that one of my techs owns and it was a torque monster. parts will not be a problem. we got our first nt700 last week & sold it last night. guy wanted ABS, but took the non-ABS bike we had. I chatted with him while they prepped his bike. He liked all the things that you said mattered. shaft drive. hard luggage and storage compartments. comfort. did not even mention horsepower. he paid with a check and there is no way he would have bought a versys to save $$$. The kids on CBRs and R6s do not get it. everything to them is how much $$$ for how much hp. they do not care about quality because the bike just has to last until they total it doing something stupid.
Felther -Fred M  December 23, 2009 10:51 AM
“Felther, Harley is giving dealers $5K incentives because they want to move the inventory quickly and take as much write-off as they can in this calendar year. (It's a grown-up thing -- you wouldn't understand”.) Duh, and why does Harley have to do this because the bike was a sales failure.

So much for you "kissing butt" theory. Yeah how bout it Fred look at Buell now.

“I called you "Judy" because you posted using that sock puppet name, immediately after posting under your own name, earlier in this thread, making the exact same mistakes about the bike's specs” Maybe Fred, just maybe Judy read my post before she wrote hers and thought that my guess/estimate on the NT700 hp was fact and 100% accurate and decided to comment on it. More than one poster here has said the bike shouldn’t cost more than $7500 am I impersonating them or are they impersonating me, more than one person has also compared the value of the NT700 with DL650 am I impersonating them or are they impersonating me, many people posted the bike is too heavy, over priced and out dated and commented on the 5 speed trans are we all just impersonating each other Fred? Either way if calling me Judy does a little something for you Fred then have at it.

“No, it's actually because you're not very bright nor do you debate honestly”. Do you honestly know how much riding experience I have, how much riding skill I have, what I do for a living, the size of my stick and berries, what kind of bikes I ride and own…no. If anyone in this debate looks dull, juvenile and desperate it would be you Fred. All you do is force your point of view and then turn into a child when someone challenges your point of view. My first post was making a personal observation and giving an opinion. You took it upon yourself to tell me I can’t do that but guess what Fred I still am and that really bothers you doesn’t it.

“I learned that you can't do math and don't know much about dynos or drivetrain losses. 146hp at the crank and 122hp at the rear wheel is a 16% loss, not "around 20%." Let’s see Fred 122 multiplied by 20% (.20) is 24.4. 122 + 24.4= 146.4. I go by what is actually measured at the wheel and start there because the manufacturers’ claims are always optimistic. Buell could have claimed 136 hp or 156 hp if they wanted so to take their number and go backwards is wrong. I go by what is measured. 40ish hp is my guess, seeing as how you don’t know the actual rwhp either you’re just arguing my guess with your guess which is really pathetic.

“You're in way over your head. While you're bagging groceries at work, I'm building satellites”. Again with the assumed personal insults, I guess that is all you’ve got. I’ll try one because it is easy to do. “I'm building satellites” Oh you mean you’re the monkey I call over when my Dish network is not working right, kind of like a cable guy.

“I never said you were alone, just that you were using flawed reasoning and criteria in judging the bike”. I was using MY reasoning and not YOUR reasoning that does not make it wrong just different. This is a simple concept that you are really having trouble grasping.

“You're judging the bike based on how well it would do what you want rather than how well it would do what its target audience wants”. So are you the licensed target audience spokesperson?

“Reliability, longevity (hint: you don't get either by trying to maximize rwhp)”, If your riding a Buell you won’t.

Fred maybe your just feeling massive insecurity and inadequacy because of all the satellites that you build that end up crashing because of designer flaws. Maybe you had a crush on a girl named Judy in high school who wouldn’t give you the time of day. Maybe you were born in a communist country where you were told what to think and anybody with a different opinion or outlook should be juvenilely ridiculed.

I’ll say it again. I think the NT700 is over priced and a poor value and will not sell well. Sorry Fred you feel differently but that doesn’t bother me that you think different. Sorry you’re losing sleep over the fact I have independent thoughts.
Dave_UK -NT700  December 23, 2009 10:37 AM
I thought I would add my view, my NT700 is now nearly 2 years old, has proven to be very reliable, comfortable and currently has 48,000 miles on it, I also ride in all weathers, admitidly it doesn't have the performance of a sports bike (if I wanted sports performance I would ave bought one) But I bought this knowing I would be doing a decent amount of mileage every year, It gives quite adequate protection from the elements, will happily cruise at 90mph plus if needed, when riding with a pillion you do need to plan your overtakes a bit more carefully, and the bike will still cruise happily at 85-90 mph, last winter I travelled from Cardiff (Wales UK) to Belgium and back in less than a day in some nasty weather (572 Miles)and didnt have any aches and pains at all, In fact if your looking for something thats reliable, functional, economical and practical then I can recomend it, ps: 0-60 Mph 4.8 Seconds, comfortable top end around 115 Mph, and on a flat road (no hills) I have seen 124 Mph, Stability in cross winds very good much better than an ST1300 Pan, as for the fairing design I find in a strong cross wind that above 70 Mph it slices through it very well

Regards Dave
Fred M. -Felther -- Or are you back to being "Judy" again?  December 23, 2009 07:34 AM
Felther, Harley is giving dealers $5K incentives because they want to move the inventory quickly and take as much write-off as they can in this calendar year. (It's a grown-up thing -- you wouldn't understand.) You'll note that I "regurgitated" the results of a comparison, in which the journalists could have given top honors to either of the Buell's competitors (the Aprilia Tuono R or the Ducati Streetfighter). So much for you "kissing butt" theory. I called you "Judy" because you posted using that sock puppet name, immediately after posting under your own name, earlier in this thread, making the exact same mistakes about the bike's specs. Here's a thread that shows that the vast majority of buyers paid far more than $4995 for a 2009 Buell 1125CR (year and model do matter -- 2008 1125R models sold at lower prices than 2009 1125CRs): http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290431/504379.html?1261534092 "That must be code for you’re not able to debate me much longer because you are in over your head and are starting to feel mentally whipped." No, it's actually because you're not very bright nor do you debate honestly. Sorry for being brutally honest, but you asked for it. "65 hp at the crank Fred. Manufacturers always embellish a little when it comes to hp ratings. For example your 1125CR is rated at 146 hp but MUSA recorded 122 hp on the dyno that’s almost a 20% drop but with belt drive. The NT700 has a shaft drive so it may drop 25-30% which would put it in the 40ish hp range. There, see you learned something new today Fred." I learned that you can't do math and don't know much about dynos or drivetrain losses. 146hp at the crank and 122hp at the rear wheel is a 16% loss, not "around 20%." Power at the rear wheel is generally 10% to 20% less than the engine's crankshaft rating due to parasitic losses, much of which is due to the rubber tires rather than true transmission losses. Even if we go with a really high loss like 25%, the NT700V would be putting 52hp to the back wheel, not 40hp. Of course, if you knew anything about dynos or statistics, you wouldn't be making a fool of yourself by trying to calculate losses based on one bike on one dyno. You're in way over your head. While you're bagging groceries at work, I'm building satellites. "Well Fred I still think the NT700 is a poor value and I’m not alone on this." I never said you were alone, just that you were using flawed reasoning and criteria in judging the bike. You're judging the bike based on how well it would do what you want rather than how well it would do what its target audience wants. You missed most of the things that actually matter to the target buyers: Reliability, longevity (hint: you don't get either by trying to maximize rwhp), maintenance costs, ride comfort, seat comfort, wind protection, secure storage, stability, and operating cost. The light sport touring buyers are not, in general, comparing bikes based on horsepower. That's way down the list in that market.
EAB -Price??  December 23, 2009 07:11 AM
I am seeing a lot of comments about price. Let me give you a few items to consider. A friend of mine bought a Yamaha because of price. He found out the starter fails routinely (it's in the forums) and you must yank the exhaust to get to the oil filter. Another friend of mine bought a Suzuki sportbike and the top end needed worked over before 30,000 miles. I personally bought a Suzuki and saw wear items failing before 20,000 miles that I NEVER saw fail, even on a Honda with close to 100,000 miles. Ok, if you are going to ride a motorcycle for 20,000 miles or less and then push it over a cliff, then you are correct, Honda's are overpriced. But if you plan on owning the bike and depending on it day in and day out for years and years, and you want to be able to put 100,000 miles or more on it, then Honda is a good choice. Personally, I have wanted a Deauville (the NT750's name overseas) for years. IN fact, the only reason I bought my overpriced 599 was because they didn't sell the Deauville over here. Now it's here, and yes, it probably cost too much. But it's also bulletproof, refined and developed to the nth degree, and is as good as a bike of that type you can get. Somehow, spending $1500 more than an equivilent bike from another manufacturer doesn't appeal to me. Short and sweet, you don't remember the price of quality, but you will never be allowed to forget buying a lesser product based on price.
Felther -Fred M  December 22, 2009 09:50 PM
"It’s top dog because it delivers the most important intangible sensation when riding: Fun. It handles so perfectly that you feel like the bike is an extension of one’s being. Its ergonomics are well thought out and while its engine isn’t the fastest, it still has character and delivers all the right sensations, albeit at a tad slower speed. In fact, our only real complaints are some very minor styling and fit-and-finish issues. So, if it’s the best handling, most fun, easiest-to-use Streetfighter that you’re looking for, look no further. Say hello to the 2009 Buell 1125CR." Ahh yeah and that’s why the bike sold so well and is still in production and will be for so many more years to come. All you just did is regurgitate some moto journal, manufacturer butt kissing, ad copy garbage. If the bike is so great then why are they giving them away for $4995?

“You are a liar. I know what other buyers paid and, on average, it was at least a grand more”. Once again Fred your assumptions are making you look foolish there are numerous ads showing the bike for only $4995, some are advertising $5995 but most that I’ve seen are $4995 and I’ll bet the dealer hosed you for “freight and prep”.

“That aside, you're the one who's so proud of being able to buy leftover, prior-model-year Kawasakis at a discount”. I would take that any day over a left over discontinued now defunct manufacturer’s bike.

‘No, "Judy," but maybe you should”. I’m not really sure why you call me Judy but I’m pretty sure it’s because you can’t find a woman to talk to you.

“A few more points, because I'm really not going to waste a lot more time on you” That must be code for you’re not able to debate me much longer because you are in over your head and are starting to feel mentally whipped.

“RTRider was well aware that I was talking in generalities”. Does RTRider know that you knew that he knew you were talking about generalities but still decided to use the word “I” instead of anybody because to me that is what I read but then again I don’t have your special abilities to read minds.

“But I'm not like you, who's using horsepower to compensate for "personal shortcomings”. I am actually over 6 ft. tall Fred and wanting a bike that has more HP than what the NT700 offers is not a matter of compensation it is a matter of satisfaction, slow bikes are no fun to ride.

“Stop lying about the horsepower that the NT700V makes. It's rated at 65hp, not 40hp”. 65 hp at the crank Fred. Manufacturers always embellish a little when it comes to hp ratings. For example your 1125CR is rated at 146 hp but MUSA recorded 122 hp on the dyno that’s almost a 20% drop but with belt drive. The NT700 has a shaft drive so it may drop 25-30% which would put it in the 40ish hp range. There, see you learned something new today Fred.

“You are in no position to judge what the bike is worth to someone else. All you can say is that it's not worth $10K to you”. I can say what ever I feel like saying and YOU are in no position to tell me otherwise!

“Several people on here think that it's a great bike for the money” But dozens more think it is over priced and a poor value, looks like I am with the majority Fred. “and at least one rider in this discussion with a whole lot more experience than you bought it” Only insecure riders who are losing an argument resort to guessing how much experience another rider has when they don’t have the faintest clue of my riding experience.

“At 375lbs. dry weight, the Buell 1125CR is the lightest liter-class streetfighter on the market”. You mean was. I was tying the Buell in on the last part about not selling well.

“You're not man enough, or skilled enough, to ride one well”. And again your insecure mind knows this because I disagree with you so therefore I must not be a good rider. I would take you apart on a twisty road just as easily as I did on this message board.

Well Fred I still think the NT700 is a poor value and I’m not alone on this. You seem to assume a lot but know very little and you actually own a Buell 1125CR.
Fred M. -Felther -- Or are you back to being "Judy" again?  December 22, 2009 08:35 PM
Felther, your comments about the Buell 1125CR betray your lack of knowledge about motorcycles. It's a bike that the press raved about. This very web site wrote (in a comparison between the Buell 1125CR, the Aprilia Tuono R, and the Ducati Streetfighter): "It’s top dog because it delivers the most important intangible sensation when riding: Fun. It handles so perfectly that you feel like the bike is an extension of one’s being. Its ergonomics are well thought out and while its engine isn’t the fastest, it still has character and delivers all the right sensations, albeit at a tad slower speed. In fact, our only real complaints are some very minor styling and fit-and-finish issues. So, if it’s the best handling, most fun, easiest-to-use Streetfighter that you’re looking for, look no further. Say hello to the 2009 Buell 1125CR." _______ You wrote: "Fred you DID pay retail for the bike because that is what ALL the dealers are selling the bikes for to ANYONE who walks in the door." You are a liar. I know what other buyers paid and, on average, it was at least a grand more. That aside, you're the one who's so proud of being able to buy leftover, prior-model-year Kawasakis at a discount. _______ "Maybe Fred it might be a good idea for you to start an upper body training regiment[sic]." No, "Judy," but maybe you should. _______ A few more points, because I'm really not going to waste a lot more time on you: _______ (1) RTRider was well aware that I was talking in generalities. I even concluded "There are plenty of reasons why someone might choose one bike over another," making it clear (to the literate) that I was not suggesting that the examples were tailored to RTRider. _______ (2) Horsepower doesn't intimidate me -- as evidenced by the bike I ride. But I'm not like you, who's using horsepower to compensate for "personal shortcomings." _______ (3) Stop lying about the horsepower that the NT700V makes. It's rated at 65hp, not 40hp. Yes, I know you have "issues" about that. See #2. _______ (4) You are in no position to judge what the bike is worth to someone else. All you can say is that it's not worth $10K to you. Well it's not worth $10K to me either. But that doesn't mean that it's not a good value for someone looking at that class of bikes. Several people on here think that it's a great bike for the money and at least one rider in this discussion with a whole lot more experience than you bought it. _______ (5) You wrote: "The NT700 is an overweight, over priced, underpowered motorcycle that will not sell well just like the Buell 1125CR that you own Fred M" At 375lbs. dry weight, the Buell 1125CR is the lightest liter-class streetfighter on the market. Combined with 146 horsepower, it has the best weight-to-horsepower ratio in the category. You're not man enough, or skilled enough, to ride one well. As to selling well, I buy what works best. You can follow the crowd all that you want.
Fred M. -You're all welcome to my opinion. ;)  December 22, 2009 07:39 PM
Who Cares wrote: "Very overpriced for a entry level motorcycle." Buy a Hyosung or a Johnny Pag if you want a cheap beginner bike. If you want a light sport touring bike, with hard bags, adjustable windscreen, shaft drive, 65hp V-twin engine, multiple storage compartments, complete instrumentation, compliant and adjustable suspension, etc., then the NT700V is aimed at you. RJ wrote: "I think puls459jr has a very valid point and you're the one out of line." Yeah, but the airplane comment was funny (this is just an online motrocycle forum, not the U.N.). Honda knows that the sport touring market tends to be pretty conservative, so their choice of metallic silver was a pretty good compromise, with something that reflects headlights well. Racer1 wrote: "I really don't see this bike setting the world on fire in the US for an important reason - people buy bikes for different reasons in the US, they are generally recreational vehicles and not the primary mode of transportation." I agree completely. I don't think it's going to be a big seller here. But I'm glad that Honda brought it here -- because the motorcycle industry needs to be more like the auto industry, not just selling the two-wheeled equivalents of Hummers, Ferraris, and Corvettes. Imagine how much healthier the motorcycle industry would be if we got into a recession and people immediately thought 'maybe I should start commuting on a motorcycle to save money'.
puls459jr -Reply to Fred M  December 22, 2009 07:35 PM
Fred M (who otherwise makes many interesting comments) isn't seeing what the review’s photos show: a jumble of like colors in which little is plainly discernible but yellow boots. This is close to camouflage - and isn’t “I just didn’t see him” the commonest testimony after a crash? Honda will serve its own interests by offering wider choices. I won’t be wearing yellow boots, so there’s no way I will buy a road-colored (“metallic silver”) motorcycle - nor any touring bike without ABS. As to “reflectivity,” in the low contrast of ordinary auto headlights an object has to be substantially more reflective than the road surface to be clearly seen: like deer’s eyes, as opposed to deer.
Felther -Fred M  December 22, 2009 07:35 PM
“I paid $4995 for my brand new 2009 Buell 1125CR. That's about $7,000 off of list. How much does it suck to be that wrong, Felther”? Fred you DID pay retail for the bike because that is what ALL the dealers are selling the bikes for to ANYONE who walks in the door. The $12K retail was when Buell actually still existed and therefore the bike had value now it is worthless junk that has to be sold at fire-sale prices to people like you. How does it feel to be that much of a sucker Fred M LOL. Good luck getting parts or service years down the road from now, unless of course you think a Harley mechanic can actually work on a Rotax engine and trans. LOL

"Fred, how do you know I’m not a female rider?" Because of your insensitivity to the needs of smaller riders or those with less upper body strength”. Maybe Fred it might be a good idea for you to start an upper body training regiment.

“It's also pretty unlikely given your fixation on horsepower” Just because HP intimidates you Fred doesn’t mean a woman can’t handle it.

“The kind who thinks that their criteria for evaluating a bike should be everyone's”. Clearly Fred by evidence of your compulsive posting and barking at EVERYONE who does not agree with you would show that it is you who is hung up on people having different opinions than yours. You must have very poor reading comprehension Fred because in my post I wrote: “Simple, I know what I like and don’t like, I have owned many different kinds of bikes and therefore can draw form a large frame of reference, I know what 40 hp feels like and is capable of doing, I know the bike’s engine and trans are out dated, I know what its competition is and what they offer, I know what 550 lbs. and 40 hp together will be like and last but not least I along with everyone else are entitled to my own opinion even Fred if that opinion does not agree with yours”. Looks pretty straight forward to me, looks like I pointed out criteria that fits my needs and did not say anything about anybody else’s needs or wants. Seeing as how if I were to buy this bike it probably would have to meet my needs and not someone else seeing as how I would be actually paying for it. Since it would actually be my money and not your money Fred I think maybe I can generate my own opinion as to whether or not it is worth my money

“You can't tell, from reading the spec sheets, whether some other rider would find the powerband, comfort, adjustable windshield, ergonomics, controls, mirrors, seat, shaft drive, luggage, etc. to be *exactly* what he/she wanted”. Fred…what is wrong with you man…seriously? What do I care if some other rider may or may not find this bike appealing; I’m not buying this bike as a gift for that person.

“Just once I wish that people would STFU about what the bike should cost, what is better than it for the money, etc. until they actually ride one” So by riding this bike it will suddenly gain more HP, lose 80lbs, drop in price by $3K. I’m sure this bike will ride real nice but so do lots of other bikes for a lot less money don’t you get it Fred?

"Simple, I know what I like and don’t like" Ding! But you don't know what other people like and don't like”. And you do Fred M?????????? I and no one posting here has claimed to know what everyone likes or doesn’t like, you’re the only one doing that. I just said the bike is poor value and probably won’t sell well. Other people posted what they do and don’t like about the bike but then you tell them they are wrong and that there are riders out there who may want or not want some of the feature this bike has.

Look Fred M, I’m going to tell it to you straight, we are all entitled to our opinions just as you are. If this fact is to difficult for you to process then maybe you should start your own motorcycle web site so you can dictate what is allowed to be said and what is not. Otherwise you just sound like an ignorant baby barking at every one who posts here. There is a reason for this message board; to hear other people’s take on this bike.

Here look at how stupid you sound Fred: “RTRider wrote: "The local Honda dealer is selling brand new 2008 ST1300's for $10,000. Why would I buy one of these?" Because you are too weak to handle a 720lb”. Fred how do you know RTRider is too weak? RTRider clearly said why would “I” buy one of these. He did not say why would a weak person buy one of these he said “I”.

The NT700 is an overweight, over priced, underpowered motorcycle that will not sell well just like the Buell 1125CR that you own Fred M.
Who Cares -Overpriced  December 22, 2009 06:30 PM
Very overpriced for a entry level motorcycle. I would think around the $8,000 range would be a lot better for a bike like this. I think this model will be like the Pacific Coast. They did not sell because of the price and Honda discontinued them. They could be bought at dealers for 1/2 price. If you want one of these wait until next year and get one at the fire sale. I would expect the DNO1 fire sale any day now. Anyone who pays $11,000 for one of these is either rich or nuts. Do a little research, there are a lot of bikes out there in the $11,000 price range that would put this thing to shame. Hell, for $11,000 I could buy a used low mileage R1200RT and have the real deal touring bike.
Gerry -over-priced  December 22, 2009 05:06 PM
Way over-priced in this tight economy,,7-7500$ tops
SAMXRL -Bland?  December 22, 2009 04:57 PM
Remember the "Pacific Coast 800cc model by Honda"? It was utilitarian, fuel efficient, and good for sport touring. Problem was it didn't push any excitement meters! I agree with Racer1 (not in the US) blog. He or she has the American consumer market figured out to a tee! I'd give it two years before it goes bye-bye with the DN-01 eyesore.
RJ -Fred M. - Visibility  December 22, 2009 04:23 PM
To Fred M, I think puls459jr has a very valid point and you're the one out of line. Aircraft? That's based on the assumption all roads are flat which is not true in every part of the US. They could have chosen a different and brighter color for the ABS model, especially if used for it's intended purpose of commuting in traffic. I don't care how metallic the silver...
Racer1 -No offense taken  December 22, 2009 04:21 PM
I understand that in many areas recreational spending is down to zero, however this appears to have coincided with a huge drop in motorcycle sales (and many other recreational / luxury items). I don't think many people are selling their cars to buy motorcycles for everyday use, they are just not buying motorcycles and buying cheaper cars... Sure there may be a few, but I don't see a major trend going on - the motorcycle sales simply do not reflect this.
RJ -Racer1 Comments  December 22, 2009 03:58 PM
Racer1, I'm not trying to start a pissing contest, but depending on where you're from in the US there are some already hard hit areas. These locations don't have the money for recreational spending and have already shifted to basic forms of transportation. The motorcycle market in the US is changing.
Racer1 -Not in the US  December 22, 2009 03:18 PM
I really don't see this bike setting the world on fire in the US for an important reason - people buy bikes for different reasons in the US, they are generally recreational vehicles and not the primary mode of transportation. This bike is a Honda Accord / Toyota Camry - those cars sell by the boatload as they are safe, reliable, economical and utilitarian. They are not fun! No-one shopping for a 2nd or 3rd fun car would have an Accord on their list. Motorcycles in the USA are bought as toys generally - people already HAVE their utilitarian transport and want a fun, weekend toy - in the form of sportbikes, "lifestyle" cruisers or go anywhere "Adventure" bikes. Judging this bike against niche bikes that are bought as toys is pointless. In Europe these bikes are used like Accords and Camrys and people love them for what they ARE... most of the posters here seem to dislike them for what they AREN'T.
Simon & Tesss Moore -Deauville & Transalp  December 22, 2009 03:06 PM
Now while the Deauville might not be a sales record breaker, its cuz the XL700V Transalp is doing well. (mybe they should import this in as well) The Transalp is a lot cheaper, has the same amount of hard bag storage in a round about way, soaks up potholes gravel road works fire trails with ease. I popped this in mainly because its has the same engine, and its by Honda. Adventure Touring bikes here in Australia are hugely popular, almost 40% of the bikes here are Adventure Touring.
Fred M. -Visibility  December 22, 2009 03:06 PM
puls459jr wrote: "The so-called "metallic silver" is practically the color of an asphalt highway, nearly invisible unless the rider wears yellow boots." If your biggest fear is being struck by aircraft, then you have a point. But drivers of cars are travelling parallel with the road and will see your bike against background vegetation, buildings, landscapes, etc. Also, don't mistake color for reflectivity. A metallic, glossy silver shows up nicely in headlights. Everyone who rides on the street should wear reflective clothing and not rely on the bike, since, in most accidents, the driver sees the motorcycle head-on or from behind, when the color is largely invisible. That is why I wear an Icon mil-spec reflective vest.
Fred M. -Another virtual reviewer...  December 22, 2009 02:55 PM
Mike S wrote: "It is way overpriced for what you get. There are a lot of bikes on the market that will do the same this bike will do for thousands less." Okay, then here's your challenge; show me one that I can buy, off the dealer's floor, that has: (1) Integrated, locking hard luggage with pass-through. (2) Adjustable windshield (3) External preload adjuster on the rear shock (to accommodate loading changes) (4) 50mpg or better (5) Range of over 200 miles per tank (6) Shaft drive (7) Linked brakes (8) Available ABS option (9) 31.7" or lower seat height (a major issue for many riders) "If you really stop and think for a minute and examine the bike there is nothing that tells me it is worth $11,000." That's why you don't have a job reviewing motorcycles. You're unable to understand that someone else's absolute, biggest concerns might be things that you don't even care about and that the things that matter to you might be of no concern to them.
puls459jr -Honda NT700V, US Model  December 22, 2009 02:54 PM
The so-called "metallic silver" is practically the color of an asphalt highway, nearly invisible unless the rider wears yellow boots. Look at the photos. But this color is compulsory if you want ABS. If not, you can have red as an option (those who pay $1000 less should of course have more options!); but then you trade the safety of visibility for the safety of all-weather control. Who at Honda USA dreams up these puzzles?
Simon & Tesss Moore -Deauville "Not a total wase of money"  December 22, 2009 02:39 PM
On paper the Deauville, is a bit drab, a bit over priced and well not that exciting. But its meant to be that way. Its an entry level simple mid sized touring bike, with out the fan fare. Its very generic for a reason so it can appeal to the average Joe/Jane out in the real world.
Fred M. -Could we try to make sense?  December 22, 2009 02:31 PM
SteveH wrote: "This looks like a very nice bike for women or older men. It would be a good bike to learn how to ride motorcycles..." And then he concluded with "That is a total waste of money." How is it a "total waste of money" if the woman, older man, or beginning motorcyclist who buys it is happy with it? What is it that you know about this bike that the Europeans don't know and that the journalists don't know? Cycle News's review of the bike was glowingly positive: http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/new-bikes/2009/12/18/we-ride-honda-s-new-nt700v/2
Simon & Tesss Moore -Honda Deauville  December 22, 2009 02:30 PM
This bike has been around in Australia for a while. It shares the same engine as the transalp & with the recently boosted 700 V-Twin engine & is now by far a much better entry level touring bike. With people dropping larger bikes more & more here and returning back to 600-800cc mid level they are very popular. Its by no means going to compete with say BMW or Triumph Or Harley as they are in a different ballpark. This bike is aimed at the average Joe who commutes to work & takes the wife away on a week end trip every few months, dosen't want or need the full monty & its not killing hi bank account.
Mike S -NT Over Priced  December 22, 2009 02:25 PM
Honda has milked the European market with this bike for years so they will finally bring it to the U.S. market. I have a feeling they are going to discontinue this bike in Europe and replace it with a new model. I really doubt it will sell well at the price Honda has put on it. It is way overpriced for what you get. There are a lot of bikes on the market that will do the same this bike will do for thousands less. If you really stop and think for a minute and examine the bike there is nothing that tells me it is worth $11,000.
Fred M. -$$$$ -- It's just money...  December 22, 2009 02:23 PM
Vinny wrote: "There's no way that bike is worth $10K to $11K." Apparently, Bill, Chris, and Neal, who have actually ridden and/or bought them, disagree with you. Cycle news also liked the bike quite a bit: http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/new-bikes/2009/12/18/we-ride-honda-s-new-nt700v "Development costs for the motor and chassis were minimal." Really? How much involvement did you have with the development? Did Honda employ finite element analysis as part of lightening the pistons? Could you shed some light on the redesign that Honda did on the combustion chambers to improve the breathing? Did they subject the engine and chassis to expensive, lengthy tests for durability, or did they just release them to see what happened in the hands of consumers? How many different suspension variations did the test mules have? I think that you are making the typical non-engineer mistake of assuming that development cost is tied to performance.
RJ -NT700V  December 22, 2009 02:13 PM
I think Honda is right on the money here bringing this bike to the US market. Unemployment, and the often overlooked numbers of underemployment, is going to further diminish consumer spending on recreational type items. Honda taking a step toward utilitarian usage is masterful in this market contraction. Considering lead time to bring a motorcycle over, the "go/no go" decision was most likely made during the height of the latest US gas crisis. During that time a commuter friendly ride was absolutely needed and they missed an opportunity by a surging consumer demand. Now "going green" has become the new corporate mantra from industries and their marketing will try to spin the NT700V as part of a corporate commitment. Regardless if you enjoy the torque pull of big power cruisers, or the flat out speed and handling characteristics of liter bikes, this bike offering fits into a larger plan of longevity through conservative business practices targeting the less absurd more cost conscience consumer. Does it strike a cord with every rider? Heck no, but in these difficult times where families are financially stretched it will be the companies willing to make substantial changes and back those changes to see them through implementation that will survive. Talk the talk of macho motorcycle madmen willing to strap rockets to your butt to go faster, the reality is there is traffic congestion and posted speed limits anyway, but more importantly, in this industry it's become life or death struggle.
SteveH -Red Herring  December 22, 2009 02:04 PM
This looks like a very nice bike for women or older men. It would be a good bike to learn how to ride motorcycles and it should be used in schools that teach motorcycle riding. Other than that it sure is over priced for what you get. Honda seems to do that, look at the DNO1. That is a total waste of money.
Fred M. -ST1300 vs. NT700V  December 22, 2009 02:02 PM
Rob wrote "Hmmmm. Fred, I haven't seen too many people who can comfortably handle a near-600 lb bike but can't handle a 720 lb one..." The NT700V is 562 pounds (that figure is from the same Honda corporate web site). That's a difference of about 160 pounds, and that's not a small difference. That's a major difference for a smaller and/or less-experienced rider. It's a major difference if you're backing the bike uphill out of a parking spot. It's a major difference if you're picking the bike up (after vandalism, an accident, etc.). "but I can't see buying the (very dated) NT700 if I could buy a (much more modern) ST1300 for the same price." The ST1300 was released in 2002 and is now discontinued. The NT700V was released in 2006. But the ST1300 might be the better bike for you (not knowing your experience, physical abilities, where you ride, and what you value in a bike, I can't say). It's just silly to assume that it's the better bike (even at the same price) for every rider.
KarmaDog -missed again  December 22, 2009 01:45 PM
Looks like a great all arounder but at these performance numbers (power to weight ect)I would have liked to see self adjusting valves and (haven't looked yet) super easy access to the oil and filters.If you don't need the "R's" then I see no reason not to use a self adjusting valve head I also keep waiting for a petcock on a remote oil reservoir to aid and speed up oil changes.This strikes me as the kind of bike that "riders" will buy ,the ones that want to get there with as little down time as possible and have a lasting quality piece of kit.I have become very aware of my own limitations and really see no need for more than 100hp for a street bike so if I'm not paying for big horses then I want convenience where it counts. Human friendly transmission OK fine whatever you say but I would rather see the money spent on ease of maintenance and durability in this class of bike. So get the air filter the oil filter and the spark plugs out where I can get at them easy and we will talk but for now i'll keep saving my $.
Vinny -$$$$  December 22, 2009 01:43 PM
There's no way that bike is worth $10K to $11K. Development costs for the motor and chassis were minimal. As a left-over it will probably cost $7500.
Rob -vs. ST13  December 22, 2009 01:29 PM
Hmmmm. Fred, I haven't seen too many people who can comfortably handle a near-600 lb bike but can't handle a 720 lb one... As the owner of a KTM 690SMR (sll of ~340 lbs wet) I am all for light bikes, but I can't see buying the (very dated) NT700 if I could buy a (much more modern) ST1300 for the same price. But true, those leftover 1300s won't be around forever.
Fred M. -Why do I buy thee? Let me count the reasons...  December 22, 2009 01:14 PM
RTRider wrote: "The local Honda dealer is selling brand new 2008 ST1300's for $10,000. Why would I buy one of these?" Because you are too weak to handle a 720lb. ST1300. Because you are a beginning rider and recognize that the ST1300 is way too much bike for you. Because you are concerned about the handling problems with the ST1300 that caused the deaths and injuries of police officers in Europe. Because the insurance is much higher for the ST1300. Because the ST1300 has a higher operating cost, with lower fuel economy, more expensive tires, and higher maintenance costs due, in part, to it having double the number of cylinders. Because you think that the ST1300 that the dealer has is ugly. Because the ST1300 is only available in Dark Red and you want a color like silver that is more visible to traffic. Because your dealer just sold the last one of the leftover ST1300s and now wants the full $15K+ list price. Because you don't find the ST1300 to be as comfortable as the NT700V. Because the handling of the ST1300 is ponderous compared to the more nimble NT700V. There are plenty of reasons why someone might choose one bike over another.
Chris in Sicily -Lovin my NT650V  December 22, 2009 12:54 PM
I ride a 2002 Honda Deauville in Italy. It is perfect for commuting and zooming through the chaotic inter-city traffic. It is also dependable, fun to ride, economical on gas and very useful at carrying my junk to and from work. I will probably buy a used NT700V when I get back to the states (I am overseas with DOD) as it has everything I am looking for in a bike. Please don't knock it until you try it. It isn't right for everyone, but it is perfect for some.
RTRider -NV700  December 22, 2009 12:40 PM
The local Honda dealer is selling brand new 2008 ST1300's for $10,000. Why would I buy one of these?
Gabe -Nt700V  December 22, 2009 12:09 PM
C'mon now quit your bitchin! The bottom line is still,"Getting the wind in your face." However you choose to do it. Have a Blessed Christmas Season, AND Ride safe! I just had a friend killed when someone in a "Cage" made a R/h turn in front of him as he was on his home from work.... Gabe
Fred M. -Oh wise Felther, decide for us all which motorcycles should be offered for sale... LOL  December 22, 2009 12:01 PM
@Felther wrote: "Maybe it would be $4600 more for someone like you who would and does pay full retail for a new bike." HAHAHAHAHAHA! I paid $4995 for my brand new 2009 Buell 1125CR. That's about $7,000 off of list. How much does it suck to be that wrong, Felther? "Fred, how do you know I’m not a female rider?" Because of your insensitivity to the needs of smaller riders or those with less upper body strength. It's also pretty unlikely given your fixation on horsepower. "And what kind of customer am I exactly Fred?" The kind who thinks that one can evaluate bikes based on spec sheets. The kind who thinks that their criteria for evaluating a bike should be everyone's. "but with the C14 you are only paying $3000 more for a bike that offers SO MUCH more." Yes. It offers to kill or maim a less experienced, older, or weaker rider for whom the NT700V would be a much more appropriate motorcycle due to its more docile powerband and lighter weight. "You also have people who only sat on the bike who are giving their opinions and judgments but hypocritically saying other people’s judgments and opinions are invalid." Nice try, but I wrote "The NT700V might be a total piece of crap or it might be a super little sport tourer made. I can't say because I have not ridden one. Just once I wish that people would STFU about what the bike should cost, what is better than it for the money, etc. until they actually ride one." "Simple, I know what I like and don’t like" Ding! But you don't know what other people like and don't like. You can't tell, from reading the spec sheets, whether some other rider would find the powerband, comfort, adjustable windshield, ergonomics, controls, mirrors, seat, shaft drive, luggage, etc. to be *exactly* what he/she wanted.
Fred M. -"Judy" and "her" comments  December 22, 2009 11:57 AM
"Judy" wrote: "What an over priced turd! $11K…for what." So you're comparing the ABS bike's price to a Versys, for which ABS is not even available? "I don’t need to ride this bike to come to my conclusion any more than I need to eat a turd to find out it will taste bad. I guess some people just can’t draw a logical conclusion based on some obvious stats." Sure "Judy." So Bill, who's been riding 55 years, and served as a motor officer (see below), just doesn't know how to evaluate what bike is best for him? That's what you're telling us. "550 lbs for a 680cc bike and only 40hp…please. I’ll take a Kawasaki Versys and a tank bag" Funny, but the horsepower numbers that I've seen published for the bike are closer to 65 (see http://www.bikez.com/motorcycles/honda_nt700v_deauville_2009.php). Only you and Felther have quoted 40hp. You "two" would not happen to know one another would you? So the Versys's 33" seat height is not a problem for you -- or anyone else? And you don't need locking luggage or the additional storage offered by the hard bags? And you don't need the adjustable windshield and better wind protection from the larger NT700V fairing? And you don't need ABS? And the lower maintenance on the shaft drive compared to the Versys chain drive is irrelevant? Looking just on paper, that kind of makes the Versys seem rather turd-like. Yes, hard bags, larger fairings with adjustable windshields, ABS brakes, and shaft drives add weight. And it's a trade-off many riders are willing to make.
Judy -NT700 too heavy and over priced  December 22, 2009 11:12 AM
What an over priced turd! $11K…for what. I don’t need to ride this bike to come to my conclusion any more than I need to eat a turd to find out it will taste bad. I guess some people just can’t draw a logical conclusion based on some obvious stats. 550 lbs for a 680cc bike and only 40hp…please. I’ll take a Kawasaki Versys and a tank bag and spend the thousands of $$$ saved on some trips where I will actually enjoy the bike I am riding. $11K…LOL
Felther -Fred M  December 22, 2009 10:48 AM
Maybe it would be $4600 more for someone like you who would and does pay full retail for a new bike. Many dealers have non-current 2008, 2009 Kaw C14 discounted, plus the C14 models have way more mark up than the Honda NT700 so the actual invoice to invoice price is about $3000 apart from each other (including dealer and factory discounts). Retail prices are for people who don’t know how to negotiate, look for or find better bargains.

“This may come as a shock, but it's not all about you”. Fred, how do you know I’m not a female rider? How do you know how old or able I may or may not be?

“Honda actually gives a darn about those customers as well as many other customers who are not you”. How is it oh wise one that you know so much about me or you think you do? And what kind of customer am I exactly Fred?

“You claim that the NT700V with ABS should be $9k but it's $11K” Well Fred the DL650 ABS retails $7999 so I gave another $1000 leeway for the NT700 because it has bags but did not give it more leeway for the shaft drive because it has a steel chassis vs. the DL’s aluminum chassis plus the DL weighs 75 lbs. less (which according to you would be right up the alley of the customers who want a light and easy to maneuver bike) and the DL’s engine and trans is a more modern design.

“and you act like $2000 is some huge amount of money, but then you refer to the difference in price between the NT700V and the Concours as "only $3000" (even though it's really $4,600). Is $2k a lot of money and $3k only a little?” Fred this is really simple to figure out. With the NT700 you are paying $2000 grand more for a bike with the same or LESS to offer but with the C14 you are only paying $3000 more for a bike that offers SO MUCH more. For example would you pay $50 a night to upgrade your hotel room if the only difference is it has extra closet space or would you pay $75 extra and get a hot tub, ocean side view and a stocked bar? I am paying more for the $75 dollar upgrade but it is well worth it the $50 upgrade is not well worth it.

“You've got people who've never even seen the bike, much less ridden on it, proclaiming that it's overpriced based on comparing spec sheets”. You also have people who only sat on the bike who are giving their opinions and judgments but hypocritically saying other people’s judgments and opinions are invalid.

“How the heck do you make those decisions when you've never even ridden one”? Simple, I know what I like and don’t like, I have owned many different kinds of bikes and therefore can draw form a large frame of reference, I know what 40 hp feels like and is capable of doing, I know the bike’s engine and trans are out dated, I know what its competition is and what they offer, I know what 550 lbs. and 40 hp together will be like and last but not least I along with everyone else are entitled to my own opinion even Fred if that opinion does not agree with yours.

Well I hope I cleared up some of the confusion for you Fred M.
lou -Looks familiar  December 22, 2009 10:29 AM
Honda put a fresh face on the Pacific Coast, And a fresh Price.
Bill -NT700 perfect for me  December 22, 2009 10:04 AM
I'm 70 years old and have been riding for 55 years. I've owned 5 Goldwings, two BMW's, a Kawi Z-10, a '49 Harley and quite a few I can't remember. Also, I spent 25 years as a cop, a motor officer, and have ridden a lot of police bikes. Creds established? I just bought an NT700. At my advanced age of decrepitude, it's perfect for me: small, light, easy to ride. So, I can continue to enjoy the hobby. And, it's a Honda. To top it off, my Honda dealer is a cool guy, and so are the rest of the staff. See you on the highways and byways...
Frankman -NV700  December 22, 2009 10:03 AM
I rented one of these in Italy for a week last year. It had a nice radio, heated grips and seat and cruise control. It seems that Honda has decided that American riders do not need these niece features. The seat sucks after about 100 miles and the windscreen would need to be larger. Everybody else on the tour had a BMW R1200RT. I was too cheap to pop for a RT. I rode one for one day and now I am smitten. The RT has to be the ultimate touring motorcycle.
Fred M. -Yes, it is a light sport touring motorcycle  December 22, 2009 10:02 AM
RiderMan wrote: "The NT700 is not a sport touring motorcycle. It is a lightweight motorcycle with side cases. It has no touring amenities such as heated grips and seats, adjustable windscreen, decent sized fuel tank and cruise control etc." In fact, it does have a five position adjustable windscreen. It has a 5.2 gallon tank, a large tank for a 700cc V-twin, giving it a range of well over 200 miles. It's got suspension tuned for ride quality with a remotely adjustable preload knob with 40-click adjustability to compensate for another passenger, or extra cargo. I think that you're mistaking the touring and sport touring categories. The Honda ST1300 sport tourer doesn't even come standard with heated grips or seats, or a cruise control.
GAJ -Interesting thoughts...  December 22, 2009 10:00 AM
and a surprising amount of emotionalism from a few over this bike. As I said, I'm sure it will have its fans, but wonder if there will be enough. I remain surprised that Honda has nothing to compete, for example, with Kawasaki's number one selling bike. The Ninja 250. My first bike was a tiny Honda and they do an excellent job in sub 401cc bikes. There still remains only one purpose built Sport Tourer/Commuter under 500lbs, however, which is the BMW F800ST. Problem with that bike, which I love, is the ABS option absolutely sucks, no hard luggage standard, the seat is abysmal and is a bit tight for taller riders. But it will rail on back roads and is very flickable. Not every bike is perfect...at least none that I've ever bought. The Honda will find a small dedicated market here, (like the Pacific Coast), and then disappear from these shores.
Not Dumb -NT Old Stuff  December 22, 2009 09:55 AM
This bike was never intended to be any kind of a touring bike. Honda has been selling this bike as a commuter bike for many years in Europe. It is and old design with no improvements. Honda is pulling a good one on the American buying public with this one. Everyone thinks Honda is releasing a new bike when in fact it is not that at all. Honda is testing the waters to see how many will sucker and pay $11,000 large for an old design that they have gotten there design dollars out of years ago. Honda seems to be copying Harley Davidson on this one. Just repackage the old stuff and pass it off as something new. You would have to be absolutely nuts to pay 11 grand for this thing.
Fred M. -It's not all about you, Hipsabad  December 22, 2009 09:50 AM
hipsabad wrote: "Fred, you started all this hectoring because you didn't like some other peoples' opinions." No, I started this because I don't want those people bad-mouthing bikes based on nothing more than spec sheet comparisons. I started this because I'm tired of idiots acting like their criteria for judging bikes should also be everyone else's. "I didn't say it was a piece of crap, those are your words." No, they are not my words. I said that it *could* be crap or it could be great but that I wasn't passing judgment without even having ridden it. The V-Strom is an "adventure tourer," which Suzuki rightly calls a Dual Sport. It's designed to have some off-road capability. The NT700V is not. The V-Strom comes with tires designed for 80/20 use (80% on-road, 20% off). Sport Rider magazine said this: "The Suzuki DL650 V-Strom was originally introduced in 2004 and is another middleweight twin that follows the adventure-tour role, albeit actually better equipped to handle those duties, rather than just styled that way. The V-Strom has the same 645cc 90-degree V-twin complete with dual-plug cylinder heads and SDTV 39mm throttle bodies from the heralded SV650, with different cam tuning biased toward low-end and midrange performance. The twin-spar aluminum frame is similar in construction to the SV unit (and basically borrowed from the V-Strom's larger 1000cc brother) but with much more relaxed 26.5-degree rake/110mm trail steering geometry numbers for stability over rough terrain. Aiding in those duties is a 19-inch wheel up front, plus suspension with longer travel than the SV (6 inches in front/5.9 inches out back, versus the SV's 4.7 inches front/5.1 inches back) while offering more adjustability (spring preload in front, spring preload and rebound damping in the rear) as well." Done. It's designed for both on and off road use. "I've ridden more miles than you in the pouring rain..." No, you have not. Or you're a very slow learner since the rest of the motorcycling community has figured out that touring bikes need hard bags. "And why won't the hard bags on the NT700 be vandalized while you're taking so long in the pisser, Fred?" You have way too much interest in how much time other men spend in public restrooms. Even assuming that you follow a piss-without-washing-your-hands routine (likely), that's long enough that anyone with a knife could walk off with your cheap-assed soft bags. "Just cause YOU like riding a barge doesn't mean everyone else does." I ride a 375lb. (dry weight), 146hp Buell 1125CR. I also ride a DRZ400S dual sport, which is well under 300lbs. I would never ride an NT700V (or a V-Strom 65). It does not appeal to me at all. It's too heavy, slow, and lethargic handling *FOR ME*! But that does not mean that it's not the best bike for someone else. This is where the foolishness of your assumptions becomes apparent: I don't own an NT700V. I have no interest in buying an NT700V. It's not even on my radar. Neither is a cruiser, full-dress touring bike, chopper, or adventure touring bike. But I have enough sense to judge those bikes with the same criteria that I used to choose my bikes. If some guy wants to buy a Victory with fringe leather saddlebags, I'm not going to tell him that he's a fool because a V-Strom costs less, weighs less, handles better, and makes more horsepower.
ryde4ever -Yawn...  December 22, 2009 09:19 AM
Has Honda decided that we all want plastic encased, boring bikes? They are getting good at it. I guess it has it's place. But that won't be in my garage!
RiderMan -NT700  December 22, 2009 08:45 AM
The NT700 is not a sport touring motorcycle. It is a lightweight motorcycle with side cases. It has no touring amenities such as heated grips and seats, adjustable windscreen, decent sized fuel tank and cruise control etc. This bike is popular in Europe where almost everyone has a motorcycle for daily transportation. It is a basic commuter bike in Europe. I saw hundreds of them all over Europe. The riders were basic commuters - men with suits on etc. This bike is seriously lacking when one states it is a touring bike. It is way overpriced and under powered. It would make a nice starter bike for women or a nice commuter bike if it was priced around $6,000 to $7,000. Touring - NO Way. Christ for $11,000 is can get a real nice used BMW R1200RT. That is a touring motorcycle.........
SilverStreak -A Sleeper  December 22, 2009 08:39 AM
Don't be confused with all the other bike comparisons. Think of the NT700V as a Kawasaki Versys with fully integrated accessories, plus shaft drive. The Versys was "Bike of the Year" awhile ago, and the NT700V may do the same. A side-by-side riding test camparably equipped would make a good story Adam Waheed?
Chris D, -Going NUTS!  December 22, 2009 07:36 AM
Creaminezzze people! This bike is going to cause some people here to commit murder! IT'S A MOTORCYCLE! Take it for what it is; not what it should be, could be, might be OR what YOU want IT to be! It is what it is, that's all! More power, less power, too tall, too short; my V-Strom is better, the V-Strom is worse, the F800ST is THE BEST, huh, no way pal, that bike sucks, the Interceptor is the best bike ever, well if it had a shaft drive that is... Well, you can't do a supercross triple on it, so it can't be a dual sport bike. We've seen every single angle that COULD be debated, & debated ad nauseum!! It's overpriced for sure, but what isn't nowadays? Everybody want's a bike that is extremely specialized just for them and expects one of the big four to make it for THEM for under $5,000, NOW! If no one has told you guys, you CAN BUY more than one motorcycle...It sure works for me! BMW, KTM, Honda...They all work beautifully for what they are designed for! I wouldn't take the BMW GT on an enduro NOR would I take the KTM on a cross country ride, and I mean ACROSS the US, not a dirt trail. This bike is on my radar for sure, it might be just perfect for those errands around town that the KTM can't do & the GT is too big for.
Jay Mack -Scoop!  December 22, 2009 06:58 AM
I can't believe it. MCUSA actually scooped on this one. This is the first NT700V ride I've read. Good going, MCUSA!

This is a chick sport tourer and any chick would do herself proud to be seen on it. Practical and fun and a great bike. If she's looking for some companionship, I'm there. (Just don't tell my wife.)
Mxster -ok  December 22, 2009 06:26 AM
There ya go again with the yellow boots. But with your job you could wear just about anything and still be cool. Cuz who wouldn't kill to have your job lol.
Racer1 -Euro vs US?  December 22, 2009 05:55 AM
This test and the subsequent comments may just highlight the core difference between the role and perception of motorcycles in Europe and in the US. In Europe they are forms of transportation - fun, yes, but many people have no car and use their bikes every day, in all weathers, for all tasks (I'm English and lived in Italy for three years, trust me on this). Over here they are toys - like ATVs or snowmobiles. 2nd or 3rd forms of transportation. As such they must emotional purchases, pure fun or a chance to play dress up and pretend to be a pirate / badass on the weekends.
Barry from NM -Sorry no Honda's  December 22, 2009 05:40 AM
This might be a fine bike for its intended purposes but my local Honda dealer is an arrogant,rude, crooked scumbag.This has made me ride anything but Honda.
hipsabad -Way to go Fred  December 22, 2009 03:24 AM
Fred, you started all this hectoring because you didn't like some other peoples' opinions. I didn't say it was a piece of crap, those are your words. I said it's a mediocre bike. Mediocre doesn't mean crap. I've ridden one, and this bike's been around for a while, ask the Brits. And oh yeah, a 471.5 pound DL650 is a dual-sport! How do we know? Well, we can't know, because Fred said that we have to ask the manufacturer, because they can be trusted more than us. Oh, and look there's a guy doing a wheelie. How lame; the guy on the NT700 could do the same wheelie, in the same place. I guess the NT700 is a dual-sport, too, eh Fred? Maybe a Valkyrie is a dual sport? I've ridden more miles than you in the pouring rain, all with soft luggage, which, by the way, is waterproof and I've never had anything stolen. And why won't the hard bags on the NT700 be vandalized while you're taking so long in the pisser, Fred? Just cause YOU like riding a barge doesn't mean everyone else does. BTW, I would love a liter-class sport bike that was comfortable, quiet, and relaxing to ride. Different strokes for different folks, eh Fred?
philamar -sport tour  December 22, 2009 02:06 AM
Im suprized that the factories haven't caught on that a lot of people with sport bikes would love some matching hardbags and some comfort related mods. I saw a Hybusa the other day with matching slant lockable hardbags, a higher wider handelbar, and heated grips. The owner said he was going to switch to a taller tinted windshield. Kinda like a Sport Tourer made by Don Garlits
Fred M. -Way to go Neal!  December 21, 2009 10:09 PM
It's great to see SOMETHING written by someone who actually RODE A HONDA NT700V! It's amazing that there are so many people disparaging a bike that they have never ridden, sat on, or even seen (outside of photos). What many people on these forums don't understand is that a bike can be slower, heavier, more expensive, and still be a better choice. Not everyone who's buying a bike is basing their decision on how fast it runs down a drag strip, how high a number it shows on a dyno, the lean angle before hard parts touch down, or how little it weighs. Choosing a middleweight sport touring bike based on those criteria is as stupid as choosing a liter-class sport bike based on how comfortable, quiet, and relaxing it is to ride.
Neal -Just a good motorcycle  December 21, 2009 09:33 PM
Why do some people seem upset that others may actually like this mototcycle? I commute 100 miles daily on my bike rain or shine and would like to have a normal motorcycle with lockable hard luggage, decent range, and decent weather protection. I ride a bike to save money and stay young at heart. My wife drives an SUV, so I am not trying to save the world. When I was younger a 650 or 750 was considered a big bike so I don't have a problem with the engine size on the NT. I have test ridden this bike and would buy one today if my finances allowed. Is it exciting? No. But it is perfect for me.
Fred M. -A response to Hipsabad  December 21, 2009 08:36 PM
The NT700V might be a total piece of crap or it might be a super little sport tourer made. I can't say because I have not ridden one. Just once I wish that people would STFU about what the bike should cost, what is better than it for the money, etc. until they actually ride one. You ask "what's the big deal with hard luggage." Dude! If you have to ask, then you are not in the market for a sport touring bike. You finish up a few hundred mile day in a pouring rain storm and tell me how well your soft luggage works. Or tell me how great it is when you come out from the rest stop restroom find that some thief got to your soft luggage. There's a reason why the Honda Gold Wing, the BMW R1200RT, the Triumph Sprint ST, the Yamaha FJR 1300, and the Kawasaki Concours all have hard luggage. As to whether the V-Strom is a Sport Touring or dual sport adventure bike, I kind of think that Suzuki would know. See this photo if you're still of the opinion that the V-Strom 650 is in the same class as the NT700V: http://verlenelson.com/SanRafael/Billy.jpg
Fred M. -New math: A difference of $2k is huge but a difference of $4600 is really only $3000 and that's not much. Huh?  December 21, 2009 08:13 PM
Feither wrote: "Think about it… for only $3000 more you can get a new Kawasaki C14. I think that puts into perspective how poor a value the NT700 really is..." Well, first off, you're way off on the price. The list price on the base NT700V is $9,999 and the list price on the base Concours 14 is $14,599, so the difference is $4,600, not $3000. That's right, it's 46% more expensive. Move up to ABS on both, and it's $10,999 and $15,299 for the Honda and Kawasaki respectively. So you think some 130 pound woman who started riding three months ago would be better off buying a 700 pound, 140hp Concours 14? You think an older returning rider who's not ridden in many years would be better served by spending an additional $4,600 for a bike that he lacks the strength and reflexes to ride safely? This may come as a shock, but it's not all about you. Honda actually gives a darn about those customers as well as many other customers who are not you. You claim that the NT700V with ABS should be $9k but it's $11K and you act like $2000 is some huge amount of money, but then you refer to the difference in price between the NT700V and the Concours as "only $3000" (even though it's really $4,600). Is $2k a lot of money and $3k only a little? All of the manufacturers are doomed. You've got people who've never even seen the bike, much less ridden on it, proclaiming that it's overpriced based on comparing spec sheets. I've sat on one. Seemed nice. But that's not enough for me to pass judgment on whether the bike is priced fairly. How the heck do you make those decisions when you've never even ridden one?
Felther -Value???  December 21, 2009 07:33 PM
This NT700 reminds me of when Honda brought another popular model over from Europe, the CB599 or the Hornet 600 as it is known in Europe. Well that bike lasted one year after Honda sold maybe 3 nation wide. Then Honda brought it back two years after that but this time it had…wow…ready…INVERTED FORKS…wow but it also cost $1000 more and it already was overpriced. So at the end of that model year the CB599 went bye bye again. It was a good bike-and popular in Europe don’t forget- but did not sell because it was way over priced compared to it’s competition like the FZ6 and SV650; which not only cost less but were better bikes.

The NT700 will suffer the same fate because you can buy comparable bikes for less money and MUCH better bikes for only a few grand more. And all this is in addition to the fact the bike has an out dated engine and transmission. So other than the name Honda what are you paying $11K for? This bike should be not a dime more than $8,995 with ABS. But I’m not surprised seeing as how this bike is coming form the same manufacturer that brought us the DN-01 and the Rune.

The only good that may come out of this bike being brought state side would be that it might cause Suzuki to include bags as being standard on the DL650 or that Kawasaki will add a similar package to the Versys 650.

Think about it… for only $3000 more you can get a new Kawasaki C14 . I think that puts into perspective how poor a value the NT700 really is but the bike did pull some wheelies in the review’s pictures so I guess it’s a cool bike and worth every penny.
hipsabad -Fred's cherry picking  December 21, 2009 07:23 PM
What's the point here Fred? The Wee-Strom is not a dual-sport, despite what Suzuki claim. I have a DRZ400S (one of my favorite bikes to ride), now that's a dual-sport. Comfortable seat? - that's subjective. 5-position windshield? - is it even effective in any of them. The V-Strom's adjustable shield wasn't for me. Maybe the Honda handles better - but maybe it doesn't. You are right, though Fred: "To Chuck, maybe you can't use more than 48hp but you're not everybody. I always hear this argument (myth?) about how certain bikes are embarrassing sport bikes and it always makes me laugh. Who are these wimpy riders on the sportbikes? Where are they riding? Are the sportbikers even trying? Who knows? Certainly I don't know. Is Adam Waheed telling us he can go just as fast on Honda's NT700 as on, say, an R6 or a VFR800 or FZ1 or a KTM950SM or a Triumph Street Triple or an R1200R or a Suzuki Bandit? Let's ask Adam. The gas mileage IS crappy on the Honda compared to the F800ST AND the F800 has a beautiful, low-maintenance BELT drive. Hey Honda are you paying attention? That's way cheaper and lighter than a bloody shaft. Harley has used them for years on their big torque winnebagos. On another point, what's the big deal with hard luggage? Soft luggage works really well and goes from bike to bike to bike. I think some riders would really prefer being in their cars. This bike's just another mediocre Honda, let's just accept that. Most of the manufacturers have little engineering integrity these days; they are not designing for real world use unless that use is as a track bike or a motocrosser. This tendency is abetted by the generally poor reviewing and the constant hyping of horsepower above all else. Can we all say "male insecurity" and "false pride" and 'my blank is bigger, louder, etc. than yours'? Personally I think 550 pounds is ridiculous. Especially given BMW's F800ST, et al. Despite all of this, the NT700 may well have a raft of happy owners, some folks just like that sort of bike. After all, most riders I see on the road drive at the same speed as the cagers and in the same manner.
Louis w/V-Strom -NT700V vs. DL650  December 21, 2009 07:18 PM
As a 650 V-Strom owner I am acceptable of this Honda Mid-Tourer. It has two big advantages over my 'Strom: a lower seat height (I'm on my toes) and shaft drive. The Honda may also handle better than my bike, although I think mine does great. I get as much as 61 mpg, and 57 is easy, but it's not rated that high in any test I've ever read. So the Honda probably gets more mpg when ridden by a sane person. I get emotional about a bike when it has great features, is multi-functional, and is reliable. Lets see, the Honda has shaft drive, can commute or tour, and, is a Honda. Sounds good to me. Now to make everyone else happy, maybe Honda could bring in their CB1100F... http://www.motorrad-news.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/honda-cb1100f-6.jpg
Tourer -NT700  December 21, 2009 06:36 PM
The BMW F80ST is $12,500 with ABS, heated grips and center stand. I,ll take the BMW for $1,500 more. The NT is overpriced and it only has a 5 speed transmission. I do not like not being able to remove the side cases. This bike would be a great bike for $7,000 or so.
Stan -REALLY???  December 21, 2009 06:36 PM
Chuck said - I've seen an experienced rider (Edelweiss tour guide) embarrass far more sporty bikes riding one of these trhough the Alps. It is a very capable bike, great for touring, and if you are a competent rider, you really don't need more power.

REALLY??? He embarassed them? More like he kept up with them and they were surprised he did. But then again if your a friggin tour guide you know the road your on a LOT better than your friends that come up to play once every five or so years. I could embarrass people with my VFR, or Vstrom, or better yet, my out-fuckin-dated 1982 Yamaha Seca 650 Turbo if they come to challenge me on the roads I ride on everyday of my life.

The Vstrom is a lighter, more flickable bike than the NT will EVER hope to be,even with hard bags! If your Alps acquaintance were on one of those he would have embarrassed those other riders even more. And lots of Vstrom owners consider the Vstrom a sport-tourer. Look at how they come outfitted this year, as does the Bandit.

The Bandit is the bang for the buck buy of the decade for sport touring. Optional full fairings and bags for less than I spent on my naked VFR. And aftermarket out the wazoo!
Stan -Just not up to par  December 21, 2009 06:12 PM
I sat on the NT700V at the dealership. I am 6'2" and 180#. I have a 36" inseam. I can flatfoot this bike on its centerstand. It sits taller and wider at the seat than my 2006 Interceptor, which IS a better bike, period. All I wanted for Christmas was a VFR with shaft drive! I already have the GIVI bags and liners, and I thread through city traffic like it was a ten speed bike, so don't praise those thin, non-removable bags with a hole in them to me as lane splitter capable. Yes, a six speed shaft would be better, with the revs in 6th at 80mph at about 4500 for a fuel effecient, relaxed, QUIET tourer. It could also use 800-900cc, not an anemic 680cc. My Interceptor has a 5.8 gallon tank, not a 5.2 gallon like the NT. My VFR gets 230 to a tank of regular gas. The bags on the NT are not removable. They don't even mention heated grips on the Honda webpage, but they say it's an option. Well, check out Honda UK and see how many options they don't offer us here in the US for the NT! Like wider panier lids so that it can actually hold a full face helmet! Like amp and speakers and foglamps and front chin spoiler, etc, etc...

I said that I was 6'2". Well, when I sat on the bike it does have a LOT of fore and aft room, but when I touch myr butt to the back I am leaning WAY forward, which means all that room is useless to me, and inaccessable to smaller riders than myself. When I sat all the way forward on the seat it was the most upright and comfortable position, but my knees pressed hard into the side panels. More attention to contouring the bodywork would have been nice. Removable bags would have been nice. You would have had a huge underseat storage area if the bags were removable. They ripped off the Vstrom as far as front body panels AND windscreen. Having owned a 2005 650 Vstrom I can tell you it is NOT aerodynamic at all with such bulbous front end panels. you bobble from side winds constantly at highway speeds of 60-80mph. Also, the snow plow they call a windscreen will cause instability at highway speeds (buffeting) as well. Ride one for more than 3 hours and your wrists and shoulders will ache from the constant correctiing you do to maintain a straight line. TRUST ME! NOT a good design. I do agree with the one respondant that said slap a set of bags on a Vstrom and you have a better bike. You would, except the lack of the shaft drive. But in all other respects a much better bike for much less. But the Vstrom is for TALL people. It sits very high. And a centerstand is an option.

I'll stick with my VFR touring machine. This NT700V I would consider if it was priced about $7k, but for what you don't get for the money, it's just not worth it. As for the man comparing it to the BMW F800ST. I'd spend the money and get the Beemer. Much more bike for the money. And way more smiles per gallon, like my VFR.
Keith -Finally, a review  December 21, 2009 05:28 PM
in which the reviewer understands what crowd a bike is meant for. Sick of moto/car reviews/comments saying - yeah, but what it really needs is a 'busa engine.
Fred M. -V-Strom? Based on?  December 21, 2009 04:45 PM
Mark wrote: "$10k? Are they insane?" They must be! That's like $2,000 less than a similarly equipped BMW F800ST! Mark wrote: "I can't imagine why anyone would buy one of these over a V-Strom 650 -- the Strom makes more power, is about 100lbs lighter, gets better gas mileage (55-60mpg), and is much less expensive" Maybe because the Honda NT700V is a better bike. Maybe it's more comfortable. Maybe it's built better. Maybe there's less vibration getting through to the rider. Maybe it handles better. Maybe it's more reliable. Maybe the ergonomics work better for the buyer. I've been riding long enough to know that you can't compare two bikes by read spec sheets (especially if you've already bought on of them and are trying to convince everyone what a clever choice you made). The V-Strom is not a sport touring bike. The V-Strom isn't even marketed as either a sport bike or a touring bike. Suzuki lists it as a dual sport.
mark -what's the point?  December 21, 2009 02:23 PM
$10k? Are they insane? I can't imagine why anyone would buy one of these over a V-Strom 650 -- the Strom makes more power, is about 100lbs lighter, gets better gas mileage (55-60mpg), and is much less expensive. Add a set of hard bags to a Wee-Strom and you're still not even close to making up the price difference. By the way, I think there's a reason this bike is nicknamed the "Dullville" in Europe, while the V-Strom wins the "Alpenkönig" (king of the Alps) award by a German motorcycle mag.
Chuck -capable bike  December 21, 2009 01:57 PM
I've seen an experienced rider (Edelweiss tour guide) embarrass far more sporty bikes riding one of these trhough the Alps. It is a very capable bike, great for touring, and if you are a competent rider, you really don't need more power.
Need New Boots -Yellow Boots  December 21, 2009 01:52 PM
The "Look At Me With My Loud Pipes" Harley bunch should like those yellow boots. If the loud pipes and pirate outfit didn't get enough attention then those yellow boots sure would. Harley Davidson: Ride to Pretend Pretend to Ride
Shiftless -Nice bike but too much $$$  December 21, 2009 01:18 PM
I seems like a nice bike but I would never pay $10,000. Honda seems to have a habit of doing this. This bike is a good seller in Europe and maybe the commuter crowd will like it. $11,000 for a 5 speed with ABS is way out of line. For a few thousand more I could buy a real bike.
Sammy -YELLOW BOOTS!!!!!!!  December 21, 2009 12:56 PM
Ok, it's a great light weight touring bike AND it's a Honda...bullet proof for sure...BUT what the HELL is with the yellow boots? SERIOUSLY? The guy must be completely color blind or judging by the wheelies on a small cc touring bike wants everyone to "LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT ME!!" The other writers taking their turns on the bikes must have been saying, "What a knucklehead!"
David -NT700  December 21, 2009 12:48 PM
Can you shove that mill into an NT650?!
unclewill -Well said Fred M.  December 21, 2009 12:22 PM
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Fred M. -Motorcycles as transportation  December 21, 2009 12:15 PM
I've got a Buell 1125CR, a Buell XB12Ss, a Suzuki DR-Z400S, and an Aprilia Altlantic 500 maxi-scooter. Different bikes for different purposes. Alan wrote: "Costs more than my new CBR1000RR" Does your CBR have integrated locking hard luggage? Does it have a comfortable riding position for all-day use with "the overall comfort of the seat" being "unbelievable"? Does the windshield adjust to five different positions to account for different speeds, rider heights, etc? Does it get 48mpg? Does it have ABS? No? Well what a totally crappy motorcycle! I'm being sarcastic, of course, but the point is that you have to consider that, for many potential NT700V buyers, your CBR would be a horrible, unpleasant, motorcycle that would not meet their needs at all. Guy wrrote: "Talk about bland. Everyone buys a certain type of motorcycle because is moves them emotionally." Right. Honda sold over 60 million Super Cubs because of people's deep emotional bond with the machines. There are people who buy motorcycles because they want practical, economical, reliable, agile transportation. Some will buy this because it's comfortable and lets them enjoy the scenery while racking up the miles. Believe it or not, some riders buy motorcycles based on how well they perform their intended task, not because they fill some deep emotional need. Paul Brian wrote: "Why did the author not mention how out of line the cost of entry is?" Because it's not out of line at all. Compare it to the BMW F800ST (ST = Sport Touring) which starts at $10,600. That bike does not come stock with any hard bags (it's about $800 to add them). The windscreen is not adjustable. You'll probably pay over 12K to get the equivalent to the $10K Honda.
GAJ -100lbs heavier than my BMW F800ST...  December 21, 2009 11:59 AM
and far less sporty, but I'm sure it will have its fans. Standard bags a nice touch. But really, no 6th gear???
Hank -MPG? Ease of maintenance?  December 21, 2009 11:48 AM
I don't know why Waheed claims it has spectacular MPG. This motor makes about 40rwhp (it's the same one that motorcyclist dynoed in the DN01) and 'only gets 48mpg. My sport bike makes about 3 times the power and gets that!
Why no 6th gear? If it is pulling 4K rpm in top at 60mph, it sounds like this will be really strained at higher cruising speeds eg 75mph.
Ease of maintenance? Honda requires it needs a valve adjustment every 8K miles! That is the same as Ducati (ok 7500 miles) and much worse than any other Japanese competitor who run at 15K miles on average.
So great, a 40 hp, 550lb bike that apart from the shaft drive is high maintenance. Getting excited about this bike is like getting excited over a Toyota Corolla.
Reffect -crazy price, yes...  December 21, 2009 10:21 AM
Being a Hawk GT rider, I know how fun this bike can be. I sat on it at IMS and it DOES feel pretty light for a tourer. IMHO, the people who buy this bike are willing to pay the premium for a Honda. However, for the money one can find a good used VFR that is much more entertaining but that's just me not wanting to have two of the same bike (not quite) in the garage. The value would come in the form of better MPG and ease of maintenance (have you seen the laundry list of problem areas of an Italian brand everybody knows of?--sheesh).
unclewill -wheelies???  December 21, 2009 09:43 AM
C'mon guys, this is a commuter bike - why abuse it by doing wheelies?
MotoFreak -NT700V  December 21, 2009 06:21 AM
I think it will sell. I personally don't like the intergrated bags but thats about all I don't like. Question is...will the V Strom owners convert? I'm not sure.
Alan -Too $$$  December 21, 2009 06:07 AM
Costs more than my new CBR1000RR
steveinsandiego -NT700A  December 21, 2009 04:50 AM
guy and paul, look at the price of the DN-01. same engine as the NT but almost no wind protection and no luggage space, all for +15K....
steveinsandiego -NT700V  December 21, 2009 04:46 AM
my eyeballs widened expectantly as i read the first article about the NT700. all i'd wish for is a lower fairing to cover the bare pipes, or longer heat shields. otherwise, very nice functional package.
Guy -Unbelievably Vanilla…  December 21, 2009 04:05 AM
Talk about bland. Everyone buys a certain type of motorcycle because is moves them emotionally. This motorcycle is a void that did not need to be filled. And at what price? If it is strictly utilitarian, it should have a lower price if it wants to prosper. So Honda has decided to bring European offering to the United States, why not bring something we will actually purchase. Same motor as the Transalp, why don’t they bring that over. I’d buy that at the same price-point. Can’t be that much of a stretch Honda, it’s only been in production for twenty years, and there are ton’s of aftermarket in Europe.
Paul Brian -Great bike, crazy price.  December 21, 2009 03:33 AM
What a great concept. Mid-sized V-twin in a mild state of tune, great storage, half decent suspension, moderate performance. But what about the insane price??? Think of all the wonderful bikes you can get for that price. Not to mention all of the comparable bikes for far less money. Why did the author not mention how out of line the cost of entry is?