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2009 Buell 1125R DSB Comparison

Wednesday, May 6, 2009
2009 Buell 1125R
Buell 1125R
MSRP: $11,995
Horsepower: 122.7 hp @ 10,500 rpm
Torque: 68.5 lb-ft @ 8300 rpm
Weight: 434 lbs w/fuel 
Best Time: 1:21.14 (Atlas)
Surprise, surprise, surprise. The ugly duckling becomes the beautiful swan. Well, maybe not beautiful, but it sure has grown up since our first peek. Buell turned a machine that in prototype from was a nightmare into a race-winner and hands down the shock of this test. After our experience at the original press introduction, which revealed a motorcycle that would accelerate with the throttle closed and give off enough heat to cook an egg on your thigh, it was nearly impossible not to enter our DMG Shootout with a list of questions hanging over this American-made sportbike: How would it handle, is the suspension up to task and have the engine woes been resolved?

But who doesn’t like a good surprise now and again, right? Hopping on the Buell reveals a totally different machine compared to the other two motorcycles in this test. Who would have thought a V-Twin Buell would turn-faster and sharper than the best 600cc Supersport made? I know I didn’t. Until we rode them, that is. The high handlebars and extremely centralized mass make for turning quickness rarely seen from a machine of its size (54.4-inch wheelbase) and weight (434 lbs). Being so light on its feet makes it deserving of the Flickability King award for this shootout. Aggressive chassis geometry, said short wheelbase and low center of gravity aid in the 1125R’s dexterity. This philosophy is the core-basis of nearly all Buell motorcycles and has been from the beginning.

“It looks and feels really big at a standstill; it’s bulky and heavy when sitting on it, but… What a blast to ride,” Dhien reports. “The seating position is roomy and feels like I am quite low to the ground. In my opinion it’s by far the most flickable of the bunch, turning from side-to-side with the slightest of tug on the bars. There’s nothing fancy with the cockpit but a big tachometer makes it easy to read and a racer doesn’t need much more. It’s a very predictable motorcycle with good feedback.”
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2009 Daytona SportBike Shootout
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Its fuel-in-frame chassis proved to be extremely stable, with the suspension at both ends responding to changes with precision. The fork may not be as amazing as the BPF unit on the Kawasaki, but once dialed in feel and feedback is quite communicative. Don’t let its size fool you, huge lean-angle is the name of the game for the 1125R.

“When pushed, the Buell’s suspension doesn’t feel quite as taut as the Kawasaki or Aprilia, yet it delivers an enormous amount of feel,” Waheed explains. “Despite its large exterior appearance it actually changes directions really fast and with much less effort than the Aprilia. Once turned the chassis is exceptionally composed and tracks well over bumps.”
 
2009 Buell 1125R
Kawasaki's Ninja ZX-6R was right with the Buell 1125R all day at Streets of Willow.

Like the chassis, Buell’s outsourced Rotax V-Twin powerplant works quite well too. Power is smooth and seamless with no big hits anywhere in the rev-range. Fuel injection has been greatly improved from pre-production to now and doesn’t exhibit any of the scary traits we first saw. Worth noting is that the Aprilia and the Buell both outsource their engines to Rotax, though for Buell’s needs the Aprilia powerplant wouldn’t cut it, thus they had the Austrian firm design them a totally new V-Twin powerplant from the ground up, aimed at more performance. Yet another factor DMG didn’t factor into the equation while making the rules…

Our biggest complaint: vibration. Even on the track, where this is mostly overlooked, it’s impossible not to be taken back by the buzzing through the bars and footpegs. For a short stint it was easy to put up with, but when it came to putting in a string of four to five laps one’s hands and feet become numb rather quickly. Tooling around town this sensation isn’t as bad, but once the 1125R is at speed it’s all but impossible not to notice.

2009 Buell 1125R
The most horsepower and torque of the group made lifting the Buell's front wheel quite easy.
Buzzing bars aside, the engine works extremely well. In fact, the powerband is so good that we discovered the Buell to be the easiest on the rear tire of the three by a good deal – we experienced nearly double the tire life from the Buell rear tire as opposed to the Kawasaki. That big V-Twin pulse and excellent rider feedback makes power-slides both easy and fun. We found this extra grunt hard to resist considering the 1125R churns out 122.7-hp and 68.5 lb-ft of torque compared to the 108.3 hp and 43.3 lb-ft of torque churned out by the ZX-6R. No doubt if this translates the same in race trim, come the end of a race the Buell boys should have a huge advantage. Thus, it was no surprise it lapped fastest in our test, laying down a 1:21.14 and doing so on heavily worn tires.

“The engine in the Buell is so easy to exploit,” Waheed comments “It feels like you’re riding a vibrating sewing machine as power production is smooth through its rev-range. Anytime you want a burst of acceleration, simply hammer the throttle, regardless of what gear you are in. It also revs out especially fast, even compared to typically faster revving Inline-Fours.”

“The engine is very torquey and it pulls strong all the way to the red line,” Dhien adds. “Good gearbox (never missed a gear) and an engine that is the strongest of the bunch made the bike the most fun to ride. And the good thing is you don’t have to look at it when you’re the one riding it.”

Eslick celebrates the Buell victory in the first Daytona SportBike race at Fontana.
Eslick celebrates after one of his three wins so far this season on the RMR Buell 1125R.
We did find the unconventional ZTL perimeter braking system to not deliver the power, feel or feedback we desired. While slightly better than the Aprilia, the outright initial bite wasn’t there, requiring excessive lever effort to get the Buell slowed from speed, far more than needed from the Kawasaki. They also exhibited a dead spot the first half-inch of pull, in which the level seemed to travel into the stroke too freely before creating pressure and initiating pad compression.

And though the brakes may not be the best and the bike tips the scales at a slightly heftily at 434 lbs, which falls in the middle of the Kawasaki and Aprilia, the Buell 1125R surprised all of our testers with its fickability, stability and extremely easy-to-manage power delivery. All these add up to a package far superior than most give it credit for.

Although, we understand that it’s hard to give credit to a bike that looks like a deformed alien, once you get past the looks this beast is all business. We’ve yet to meet a rider who finds its styling appealing. It’s a shame, as the bulbous bodywork and strangely-high upper fairing hide beneath them one of the better V-Twin sportbikes on the market. Who knew so much potential sits under that funky fairing? We sure didn’t – until now!

And The Winner Is…
2009 Daytona SportBike Lap Times

Who’s the winner and who’s the loser? Talk about a loaded question – especially in this case... By virtue of top performance scoring and coming in a close second in the subjective category, Buell’s 1125R finishes on top of our DMG sportbike comparison. It may not have been the top pick for everyone, but the numbers don’t lie – just try not to be seen on it in public.

But, in reality, this comparison dives much deeper than just the motorcycles. It isn’t solely about the machines, but about the racers, fans and DMG. Considering the new rules, the only winner we see in all this is DMG – and subsequently Buell as well. Don’t get us wrong, more power to Buell for taking advantage of what looks to be lopsided rules; any one of the other manufacturers would have done the same. Where the shame falls in our eyes is on DMG for instigating something this absurd before testing it’s fairness. No trials, no hard tests (at least to our knowledge) – they just pulled the rules from where the sun don’t shine and called it law. It appears from their series of releases defending the rules they based them almost solely on power-to-weight ratio, but we all know much more goes into a machine's competiveness than this ratio.

While the rules are a bit hazy, which seems to be intended as such from DMG, there’s no doubt anyone observant can see the advantage Buell has; easier to push harder, more steam coming off the corners and is better on tires. Plus, the added weight given to them, at least at this point, is nothing more than a press ploy. Not to mention, where most seem to think the Inline-Fours have a major advantage in corner speed and the Buell gets it back coming off the corner, we found in stock form the Buell is right on par with the Kawasaki mid-corner, leaving the Inline-Fours with little-to-no advantage. In fact, when it came to the ease of changing direction, the Buell is superior to the lighter Kawasaki.

As a result we would have to say the real losers here are the fans, the motorcycle industry and the riders on anything other than a Buell. We all want close racing and no one is against having an American manufacturer in the series, but let’s at least make it fair. Even in the Aprilia's case, the Buell has a definite advantage.

What would we do to make things more equal? Air restrictors on the Buell to keep the HP down, or even more weight than currently outlined could possibly slow it down. But maybe we are focusing too much on restricting the Buell instead of empowering the others. I say allow the 600s to user lighter aftermarket wheels to aid in acceleration and fickability. This would help close the gap while still not adding excessive costs. As for the Aprilia, from our view this could be the toughest fix. I think if the KWS team were able to get the bike's weight down it could be competitive as is, but this is an issue that stems from the stock RSV1000R, not a DMG rule issue, and would take large piles of cash to achieve. Hence, I say allow the Aprilia 1mm overbore to give them slightly more displacement and some much-needed power (this would be cost effective as well), and then make them adhere to the same minimum weight as the Buell. Sounds complicated, I know, but what do you expect when they think 1000cc-plus V-Twins should race against 600s?

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The Final Voice
2009 Buell 1125R
Steve Atlas – Executive Editor:

Coming into the test I had no idea they would be this close. Having not ridden the Buell since their introduction – ill-running pre-production bikes caused many issues – I was a bit skeptical on how it would perform in stock trim. Honestly, I’ve been downright surprised Eslick has been winning races, as my first taste of the machine was quite bitter. After riding it at Streets, that bitterness disappeared in a matter of a couple laps. Don’t get me wrong, it’s still horribly ugly – in my opinion – but they no doubt worked out the pre-pro flaws and as a result have an extremely capable machine.

Maybe it’s even a bit too capable to be racing head-to-head against 600s? Kawasaki’s ZX-6R was right there in terms of overall fastest lap time, and as it proved in our Supersport Shootout, it’s the best 600 on the market. But the big surprise was how much easier it was to turn those times on the Buell and how much better it did with tire wear. By far the rear Dunlop on the 1125R looked twice as good as the Aprilia and Kawasaki rears. The green machine proved to be much snappier due to the high-rpm-based powerband and consequently took more effort to control. The Aprilia falls right in the middle, destroying rear tires as ferociously as the Kawasaki, yet remaining easier to control as the traction went away. Interesting…

As for my overall pick, though, I never thought I would say it but the Buell takes the top spot, followed extremely closely by the Kawasaki and then and Aprilia. Though, if I had to take my helmet off in the pits and been seen next to the motorcycle, I may opt for the Kawasaki instead; I just can’t get over how ugly that Buell is.

Adam Waheed – Road Test Editor:

If I was a racer with teams coming to me to ride for them this year I would go for the Buell knowing what I know now. With the modifications and cc advantage allowed it seems to have a distinct advantage and if I made my paycheck based on winning races I would want whichever bike would make it easiest for me to reach that goal. No doubt that’s the Buell. It’s the easiest on tires, the easiest to turn – everything about it is easy. And when pushing at that level I want it to be as easy as possible.

Behind it would be the Kawasaki and then the Aprilia. As we all know the Kawasaki is awesome. Handles great, big power for a 600, looks way better than last year – it’s an awesome bike. If I was buying a personal track bike that would be my choice, but when it comes to racing and considering the rules this year, you would be stupid to not ride a Buell. As for the Aprilia, if I had a load of cash and wanted a cool street bike this would be it. But it’s just getting a bit long in the tooth for track duty and for sure it would be hard to race something that starts out weighting as much as a WWII armored tank.
2009 Daytona SportBike Scorecard

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Comments
Ha Ha -Only thing I can say is what a bunch of winers  December 31, 2010 12:32 AM
Go cry to your mom you 17 year old shunts. Your Whole publication just lost credibitlity, but hey, I'm not a gsxr squid, so may be that is who you cater to. "Though, to be fair, two of our three riders did set their fastest time on the 6R, it just wasn’t the outright quickest of the test. "
cbr vtr -mountainstorm  March 16, 2010 08:54 AM
Wow so biased that the buell had the best lap time. It should it has more displacment by almost double the 600. Why do they like the 600 because despite being smaller cheaper and not as ugly as the buell it does almost as well and get better fuel economy doing it. So if displacement doesn't matter put in the winning liter class bike and see which wins then and its still 100 some odd cc less than the buell. I think we should all ride what we like but racing isn't about you watching the bike you like be stuffed into the mix with a displacment advantage of 500+ cc and calling that fair. How many times did Ducati win with a minor displacment advantage 8 times in 11 years with just a 100cc advantage in a twin.
Mountainstorm -Pass the Haterade  February 13, 2010 04:31 PM
Talk about a biased piece of journalism. How many times did you call the Buell Ugly? How many times did you prais the Kawasaki? What's so pretty about yet another IL4 600cc Repliracer? It's been done to death.

I watched the races and there was no advantage I saw for any one make or for any one rider. Danny Eslick is just a talented and consistent racer. The DMG did a good job of handicapping and the series provided some of the most exciting racing I have seen in years.

It's about time for a race series that does play directly to the strengths of the Asian MFRs and there very deep pockets. Why should racing be based solely on displacement and why should displacement classification be based solely on the arbitrary divisions of the past?

So the IL4 guys can win I guess...and that's just boring to watch over and over.
MCGUIRE -sewer rat  January 27, 2010 02:22 AM
Well I guess I will have to use my RSV R as a High performance street bike. I can still pick on Harley Davidsons.
Rick A. -DMG Sportbike  November 4, 2009 01:57 PM
If the racing is competitive, the rules are good. Only one Buell/rider was ever consistently in the running. I'm curious to see what's in store for next year with Buell being canked as a manufacturer.
John -Re: Fair?  October 23, 2009 12:19 PM
Carla was the prom queen.
Jibjibjub -Fair?  October 1, 2009 01:00 PM
Losers whine about fair. Winners go home and F#*$ the prom queen.
andras -boring  September 21, 2009 08:06 PM
The power argument is not the point. The problem is that we substitue competitiveness with rules just to please manufacturer which has a different flavour of product.
We could create a class where hyper performance 50cc scooters do same laptime as 2000cc cruisers if we want to by playing with rpm/weight rules etc. We will keep changing the rule to keep buell competitive (or are we going to bring in indian?).
The bottom line is that we compare apples to oranges, the result will not show who is faster by traditional means, but which technology has a bit better rules than the other.

This is the same problem with letting turbocharged diesels to compete in the WTCC...
KEN THOMAS -ENGINE  September 18, 2009 12:06 PM
No one has addressed the real reason these rules allow different motor sizes to race in the same class. Volumetric Efficiency is the main reason in my oppinion. The efficiency of a full race 600cc engine and the v-twin engines in class must be similar to compete together. A 1000cc I4 has a greater volumetric efficiency than both by a great margin, so does the Ducati 1198 v-twin engine for that matter. Other factors such as total bike dry/wet weight, gearing, even weight distribution can give each team an edge. Think of it like this: when motorcross switched to 4 stroke motors, the limit was set at 400cc compaired to the 2 stroke limit of 250cc. When formula one switched to 4 stroke the limit was set at 1000cc to the 2 stroke 500cc limit that was current. Motorcars race to the same rules system based on displacement/volumetric efficiency ie: a naturally asperated engine has a cut of say 3.5liters and a turbo car of 1.5liters. Both make the same overall horse power but, torque is strongest at a different place on the powerband.
dennis -buell racing  September 8, 2009 07:58 PM
BUELL #1
slick willy b -class  September 7, 2009 08:20 PM
Maybe there should be no classes or rules at all. Kind of like Nascar started out as. We should let every bike race the same race, and if a HD electra-glide (ha ha) turns the best lap times, than manufacturers will start making/modeling their supersport bikes against that top dog. I find races completely boring when every vehicle is perfectly, equally matched. Nascar. Thats what racing used to be all about, finding an advantage faster than the other guy. Some of these reviews relate it to boxing, so here I go; If you made two equal robotic, cyborg-like boxers to specs, programmed to know the same functions and moves, and then put them into the ring to fight it out! wooo-hoo, how exciting, I wonder which would win?
That is the direction all racing is going. Sad, depressing and most of all boring.
Fred M. -Why is everyone so hung up on displacement?  August 14, 2009 01:20 PM
Jake, you're not getting it. Basing everything on a displacement limit is just as stupid as basing everything on an RPM limit. Do you want the racing to produce the best motorcycle or just the highest horsepower per cubic centimeter? The Ducati was built as a competition motorcycle, just as the 600cc Japanese bikes were. Neither work as well on the street as the Buell 1125R does. The Buell has a more street-friendly riding position. It's engine is tuned for a broad powerband rather than the highest peak horsepower. DMG has enough sense to recognize that punishing manufacturers for building bikes street bikes harms the consumers and the industry.
jake -greg1125r  August 8, 2009 02:47 PM
greg japs DID make V-twins and when inline 4s were allowed the SAME displacement they were able to make faster bikes from I4s. as for some others the issue is NOT that I4s make power up top and V-twins make it low and rev low. the issue is they are racing a BIG twin against smaller I4s. why does the 1198 ducati (formerly the 1098) have to race superbike why cant they race against 600 I4s? is it really the 73cc displacement? hell the aprilia rsv1000 shouldnt be racing against the 600s. could i race a 2000cc 110hp bike in this class if it only revs to 5k? displacement rules allow manufactures to pick the configuration that works best for them and work it to the rules best. i dont even like that twins get 200cc bump over the I4s in superbike. each set up Vtwin Ltwin V4 I4 triples all have advantages and disadvantages so lets stop saying a 1125 = 600 otherwise all twins should race the 600s. so lets just call retarded retarded and leave it at that.... the issue isint that they are racing BIG twins against SMALL inline 4s. its that SOME big twins do and some dont. yes i know the rsv1000 does as well so why isint ducati in on the fight? what about the new ktm rc8 thats coming out? just pic a rule and let the manufactures make bikes to fit them. also would the suzuki sv650 have to race against the buell 1125r just because one is jap and the other american????
Fred M. -The displacement argument flawed.  August 5, 2009 08:25 AM
horsepower = (torque * RPM) / 5250 --------- That simple formula shows why it is silly to focus solely on displacement. Complaining that the Buell has an unfair torque advantage is as silly as complaining that the Japanese bikes have an unfair rpm advantage. Buell made a conscious decision to make horsepower at a lower RPM by increasing torque with a long-stroke twin. The Japanese Big 4 chose to make horsepower at a higher RPM by going with shorter strokes to keep piston speeds manageable. Neither approach is more noble, honest, or deserving of praise and respect. Neither shows more engineering prowess. Each has its advantages and disadvantages (engine height vs. width, gyroscopic effect, tire wear, need for counterbalancing, and so on). If we wanted to be more fair, we would not consider displacement, but would, instead, base the class on displacement times redline (which would describe the amount of air and fuel moved through the engine in one minute).
Whaaah -Unfair?  August 3, 2009 10:06 PM
I'm so sick of this topic. Everyone who discusses the whole displacement issue is blind by their own prejudices, especially this article. Nothing but self-fulfilling prophecies. Also, what is with the obsession over displacement? If there is a 4 cylinder bike pumping at a 15000rpm redline vs a 2 cylinder bike at 10000, that is 30000 power strokes vs 10000 for the twin (per minute). That's a THREE TO ONE advantage, and much more significant than the displacement disadvantage. The reason the Buell is out-performing is that it's made to turn, accellerate from turns and it's power is put to use, whereas the I4's are all up top, and that kind of engineering needs to be on rainbow road, or a drag strip...

"at 120.2 hp, compared to high-revving Supersport-specific Ninja ZX-6R that pumps out 108.3 hp despite a motor that is almost half its size; less than 10 hp difference from a motorcycle 400cc bigger."

Learn math; just another example of the author trying to make the I4's appear to be some sort of an overperforming underdog, keep your fanboy attitude out of my internet.

Born in the USA? -Take your American pride and shove it up your butt.  July 30, 2009 10:01 PM
Redneck Harley riding Americans woooo makes me real proud to be American. I don't like the looks of American made bikes cant help it and I'm not sorry for it.
I like the Italian and Japanese bikes better,sleek and fast even if some are slower. If America wants to compete we need to do the same and don't be afraid to make it look Unamerican make it look and drive like a bullet A New America that's not afraid to make things look different instead of the bland crap and cheap plastics we have now.
I can see the new Buell looks better than they ever have, American pride is whats killing us and I will not buy a car or a truck or a bike solely based on where it is made. That's not freedom of choice that's communism to be made to feel guilty because you don't buy American.

There I said it, even if I don't make sense. So Hate Me
Todd -Buell 1125R  July 30, 2009 08:13 PM
Maybe they should just bring back the 750cc class and put an end to all this fuss , but , because suzuki is the only one still building one I'm sure somebody would still cry foul . What could they do except maybe put the V-twins into a class by themselves , Hmmm that would be interesting .
Greg1125r -cry me a river jap fans  July 25, 2009 12:32 PM
Rules are rules if the japs dont like it they could build v-twins STOP WHINING AND ENJOY THE RACE
Born in the USA -What Happened to National Pride in America?  July 21, 2009 12:59 PM
Let me start by saying that I went to my first AMA bike race at Mid Ohio this past Sunday and witnessed an incredible battle between a Buell, a Kawasaki, and a Suzuki. In the end the Buells finished first and fourth in a race that Speed Channel dubbed as the most exciting race of the season. I get a kick out of the fact so many of the responses are so focused on the displacement of the various engines, and the never-ending whining over how unfair it is. The bottom line is that the Daytona class is very competitive. The Buell's are by no means walking away with the championship, currently in second place. And that is what the class is all about, parity. The other thing that I find really amusing is how biased so may are against the Buells. I know WWII seems like ancient history, and people don't seem to give a damn about National Pride today, but the good old U.S.A. ain't doing so well right now. Obviously all the strong negative responses to the Buells is about Brand Loyalty to the Japanese Bikes, not Japanese Nationalism. And cetainly they have produced many fantastic bikes over the years. But I think it is awesome to have an American owned company; which is defenitely a David to the Goliaths of Honda, Kawasaki, and Suzuki; bringing such a competitive sport bike to the market. It is about time. Personally, I am so sick of learning about family, friends, and neighbors who continue to lose their jobs while the American Consumer continues to support the importation of consumer goods and the exportation of jobs to the Asians and the Indians. I am completely convinced that only the American Consumer can save the American Dream. The Chinese own too much American Treasury Bills for our high ranking Politicians to get tough, and our own Corporate CEO's only give a damn about the bottom line and would send their mother's job overseas to get a bigger bonus. So only the American consumer can save the American Dream. If you really think we can compete with Asia and India on cost you obviously have no clue what the standard of living is like there. I have spent a fair bit of time overseas, and you can't appreciate how good we have it until you stand in the midst of the squalor......I could go on and on, but let's get back to the bikes. I have owned numerous bikes over the years and they have all been Japanese four cylinders. I have recently test driven both the 1203cc air cooled Buells, and the 1125cc water cooled Buells and can honestly say that I have never owned or ridden a bike that is as much fun to ride as the Buells. The styling on the 1125 models is definetly unique, but the more I have seen them on the road, the more I like them. And nothing beats the exhaust note of the V-twin, just plain guttural. Being a mechanical engineer I understand and appreciate the mass centralization design philosophy of the Buells. Anyone who states that the V-twin in the 1125r is old technology has no idea what they are talking about. The finger following design of the camshaft lifter is the same technology as used in the Formula One Race Cars Motors. Granted the 1203cc Harley is antiquated architecture, but when it comes to engineering design principals simpler is always better. The same holds true for the old pushrod OHV motors that have been making the Corvette such an incredible performance machine for fifty plus years. Bottom line for me is, you can rant and rave all you like about whether the series is fair or not. I want to see good close battles and don't give a damn about the displacement. And until you have ridden a Buell, your opinion on them is quite useless.
Pow3rgaming -what??  July 14, 2009 12:54 PM
I'm a regular guy that watches the races sometimes. I ride my bike a lot. I love my 600cc sportbike... That said. I am not really attuned to the rules of the races I can still enjoy now and then because I really just enjoy seeing the riders vie for position and wreck or keep from wrecking or whatever. I can still enjoy the races knowing that all things being equal (EQUAL) that it'll be neat to see who comes out on top and with what machine, all the while wondering if their team, the rider or the machine was the primary reason for each victory or loss or if it was the culmination of them all or whatever... I like to watch because my bike is out there (to some degree anywayz) and I like to pretend I can relate the next time I'm taking twisties or whatever... Now with all that said... I gotta wonder how anyone can think the average or even above average reader can't think "Shenannigans!" A freaking 1200cc bike being compared to 600cc bikes is FREAKING RETARDED. I don't give a crap about the rules or this or that political bullcrap or this factory does this or that or wth ever... It's got almost twice the damn displacement. I use to think the same a little about Ducati until I realized Ducati will always be in a class by itself in a way but this article?? What a damn joke.
Shaman -Aprilia  June 9, 2009 05:02 AM
Aprilia must be pushing out the same RSVR to the bike mags, with the standard California-legal mapping that they were forced into for the States. In Europe and Canada, at least, we get a second map for the Factory / optional Akrapovic cans and the bikes cannot be described as being flat or slow-revving. I chased and caught my friend on his 112whp R6 at the Cherohala Skyway on my Tuono, which is something my GSX-R 750 could barely do, with ease. There's nothing flat about the Aprilia's power delivery other than its torque curve and the fact that it only makes 120whp in a world populated with 160whp i4 litre bikes. And if you don't think I'm qualified to say this, I have Joey McRae's ex-Canadian Superbike for a track bike. That's a 185whp, 390lb GSX-R 1000 with 520 chain conversion and Ohlins forks (for starters). And yet I don't find my Tuono to be flat-powered.
mac daddy -air  June 6, 2009 04:39 AM
Gentlemen, the subject is air. Air and fuel are energy. The relative size of the air pump doesn't alone determine how much air the pump moves, and thusly, how much power the engine converts from the air and fuel. What I'm saying is that the inline 600 and the 1100 v twin are a damn good match in the amount of air they move. They move about the same amount of air. Which is nothing compared to how much air this subject has you all moving around. Come on, you guys love this stuff and DMG is giving you a great controversy to argue over. Enjoy it!
fmaxwell -Ugly depends on the perspective.  June 1, 2009 10:44 AM
Steve Atlas wrote: "Though, if I had to take my helmet off in the pits and been seen next to the motorcycle, I may opt for the Kawasaki instead; I just can’t get over how ugly that Buell is." Only from the front -- and riders of other brands just see it from behind.
fmaxwell -Stop whining...  June 1, 2009 10:39 AM
The Buell is winning because it's a better design. Period. "The high handlebars and extremely centralized mass make for turning quickness rarely seen from a machine of its size (54.4-inch wheelbase) and weight (434 lbs). Being so light on its feet makes it deserving of the Flickability King award for this shootout." Think about that: The bike with added penalty weight, a big V-twin, and the associated gyroscopic flywheel mass, is the most nimble. It's a brilliant design, from the compact rigid frame that holds the fuel to the underslung muffler that lowers and centralizes the mass to the rim-mounted ZTL disc brake that reduces unsprung weight. These same rules apply to all manufacturers. The fact that the Japanese have elected to run a less competitive design (600cc inline fours) should make you angry with them, not with Buell. Besides, when you go into your dealer to buy a bike, you should be buying the one that will work best for you -- and for the vast majority of riders, that's the Buell.
Dlee95209 -It's Wrong  May 21, 2009 07:07 AM
Putting the Buell 1125cc into a 600cc class is just wrong. That's like putting a Vladimire Klitschko (Heavy weight boxer)in the ring against Manny Pacquiao (Light weight boxer). Common....let's be real!
Shoot95207 -Eric Buell should be ashame  May 21, 2009 06:56 AM
Eric Buell should be ashame of himself...He should have told DMG that he understand and aprreciate what DMG is doing for the buell.....BUT NO THANKS. That at Buell we want to win Fear and Square...But desparate men (buell wanting to win) Do desparate things (putting a 1125cc into a 600cc class...What a shame.
Patt -cyclone99  May 13, 2009 07:12 PM
“They ran a 1000 against 750s at a lighter weight-that is a 25% increase.Shows what you know about the history of racing” Really, no kidding Cyclone99 I thought it was the year 2009 not 2003 and before. I live in the present. And how much allowance is Ducati allowed now, as in May 2009 not as in May 2003? Answer 20%! A better counter you could have used Cyclone would have been that the Ducati 848 is allowed a 41.56% displacement allowance in Daytona sport bike. But even that number is less than HALF the displacement allowance Buell is allowed. As a matter of fact if you gave Ducati the 41.5%, the 25%, and the 20% allowance combined it STILL would be LESS than the Buell’s displacement allowance! I guess this goes to show how little you know about fifth grade math and racing.
Grunt -@cyclone99  May 13, 2009 01:15 PM
MCUSA, please can you do a comparison shoot out between all v-twin litre class motorcycles that are in production? That would be a fantastic read, won't it? Moreover, that comparison will really help us in deciding which is best v-twin litre class sportbike to go for its money. Agreed?
cyclone99 -Patt  May 13, 2009 03:58 AM
They ran a 1000 against 750s at a lighter weight-that is a 25% increase.Shows what you know about the history of racing.A rule book bike is the same no matter the percentages.I did not renew my AMA membership when they sold out to DMG.
snowscum -Looks like a factory bike to me......  May 12, 2009 08:24 PM
Jamie Hacking Monster Energy Attack Kawasaki Kawasaki Ninja ZX-6R Monster Energy · Kawasaki · Attack Performance
Patt -cyclone99  May 12, 2009 12:48 PM
“We let Ducati win numerous World Titles with a rules book bike for years. Why all of a sudden are people whining about Buell doing the same thing”? The answer is really simple cyclone99, Ducati gets about 20% displacement allowance but Buell gets almost 90% displacement allowance; this is hardly the “same” thing. Unless you failed the fifth grade and never went back to school you would understand what the issue is.
cyclone99 -Rules  May 12, 2009 08:58 AM
We let Ducati win numerous World Titles with a rules book bike for years. Why all of a sudden are people whining about Buell doing the same thing?
moto/jim -DSB Shootout  May 11, 2009 06:43 PM
I own a 2008 ZX6R,& a 2004 Firebolt.The Buell has cams,airbox/k&n/ecu/drummer slip on.The old style Buell is out classed by jap.tech.I'm Probally going to trade the Firebolt in on a 2008 1125r.The dealer has 15 left overs,at a very large discount.I just love to ride.Is this not what it's all about. If it's from a buell to a yamaha,JUST RIDE MAN!!!!!
Federmint -Snowscum  May 11, 2009 06:38 PM
“We all know Kawa has got their hand in hackings bike. Unless your with the team which I doubt it”. Snowscum who is “we”, you and your imaginary friends? Unless YOU’RE with a team Snowscum you're just a Kawasaki hater. See how stupid your remark sounds when you try to tell me I am wrong because I’m not on the Kawasaki team when neither are you. You say we (you and your pretend friends) know Kawasaki has their hands in Hacking’s bike but you and your friends have no proof. So now we have gone from you saying Hacking’s bike is a full factory effort to now Hacking’s bike has a “hand” in it from Kawasaki. Yeah that hand is that Kawasaki made the bike, DUH. So now that you have admitted that Hacking’s bike is not a factory bike but just a “hand in” bike, how much "hand" we don't know if any, you have resorted to just calling me a hater because I don’t see things the same way you do. You Snowscum sound like the hater. I was merely pointing out facts. Am I a hater because Hacking is not on a full factory team and you were wrong and I pointed this out to you??? “They must be doing something right” Yeah DUH they had DMG fix the rules for them!! Nice try again Snowscum but next time try harder because this last post of yours was too easy to tear apart.
Snowscum -Waaaaa  May 11, 2009 03:44 PM
Federmint, need some Kleenex? We all know you hate buell. Its ok. You dont have to watch. Its great racing so far. They must be doing something right. We all know Kawa has got their hand in hackings bike. Unless your with the team which I doubt it. You are just anothe buell hater and thats ok.
Grunt -@Betterburger  May 11, 2009 12:50 PM
Exactly, especially the likes of 1098/1198 and RC8 will have any Buell from all the four directions! Probably that's why DMG ain't allowing these bikes to race against Buell, trying to save its rear end from the other better twins :-P
Betterburger -Other V-twins kill Buell 1125r  May 11, 2009 10:35 AM
Heck you don’t even need a 1000cc I4 to kill a Buell 1125r; a Ducati 999,1098, (probably even an 848), now there would be a comparison MUSA: 1125r against an 848 and 1098. Back to my list of other twins that would kill a Buell 1125r: RC51, TL1000r, KTM RC8R. Funny how some posters are talking real tough on how their big v-twin sport bike will kill a 600, when on the street you will come across ALL types of sport bikes, not just the ones DMG allows you to ride. So in your unfair, controlled little world of Daytona sport bike the Buell may come out on top but in the real world it is getting its butt kicked by 70% of all the other sport bikes on the street including other V-twins. I wonder how proud Ducati owners would feel if they were bragging about how their 1198 beat a 599cc I4…LOL. This whole argument won’t matter in 3-4 years from now because by then the 600s will be faster than the Buell because their manufacturers will develop and improve the 600s each year while the Buell will stay the same until Erik Buell shovels more money to Rotax for a 1225r.
JT -just a thought  May 11, 2009 01:10 AM
Why cant Buell ditch the twin cruiser motor design from 1930 and do a 600 I-4? I'm thinking they lack the engineering/intelligence/resources/technology...sad. So as a reward for that..give them almost double the displacement.sadder. GSXR 750 would embarass it too much! liter bike would chew it up and spit it out, it would be a massacre! It would be too gruesome to see!
Japnese Four Pot -Unfair Tournament  May 11, 2009 12:09 AM
Why in the hell are u comparing a 600cc with a 1125cc bike??? The 600 kawi can still keep up with the 1125 Buell then think what the ZX-10R could do to Buell...(even though the ZX-10R is still short by 125cc), the kawi makes 165 PS which the Buell cant even dream of...I'd bet a stock ZX-10R would destroy the race spec Buell on any day. Now that u guys have really done it (comparing 600 to 1 litre+) we wanna see a similar comparo with the 4 big jap bikes with the buell. Say what guys...let the race begin.
Federmint -Jimidan  May 10, 2009 07:16 PM
“An engine is an air pump first. The more air it can pump the more power it produces. The faster that it revs, the more air it pumps. Displacement is just one measure of how "big" an engine is, and it is not the best one”... What then would be the best measure??? RPMs? But surely you realize Jimidan that an 1125cc motor spinning at 10500 rpm pumps way more air than 599cc motor spinning at 15000rpm. And it is true because if it wasn’t the Buell would not be putting down way more HP than the 600s. Notice I did not mention torque because the Buell’s displacement alone will guarantee an advantage there. But its HP number shows that not only is the motor bigger but it is also pumping more air. Motors that pump less air make less HP it is a fact not my opinion. This is also why super chargers and turbo add so much HP; they pump more air, this is why bigger motors built to similar tune as smaller motors make more HP, they PUMP more air. This is a fact lost on you I guess. “If you think that the Kawasaki used in this test has similar performance stats to Hacking's bike, you are dumber than the Buell is ugli”. Please tell all of us Jimidan how much more HP is Hacking’s zx6r making over a stock zx6r, I am just dieing to know!!. “but has bodywork that was designed by the wind tunnel and not some gay fashion designer named Pierre. It is also quite functional...and function should be above form on a sporting motorcycle, or all of them would look like cruisers too. The Buell was NOT designed to be a race bike” If the 1125r was NOT designed to be a race bike then why all bother with wind tunnel testing? “Just think how good of a race bike Erik Buell could have designed if he had wanted to” Jimidan, don’t you mean if Austria/Rotax wanted it to be a race bike. Without the European motor in that American “assembled”, not built, bike, the Buell would not stand a chance no matter how many cc you give it, as in XBRR. The Buell 1125r racing in the Daytona Sportbike class is a joke, DMG is a joke and so are all the BuellTards trying to justify and rationalize why the 1125 is allowed. Well I will close with a simple question that will always silence the BuellTards: If it is fair for the Buell to race with 1125cc against 600s because it is a V-twin then WHY can’t Ducati race their 1098 but instead are only allowed 848cc???
Federmint -Snowscum  May 10, 2009 06:32 PM
“Why is Kawasaki allowed twice the $$ advantage? Or twice the RPM advantage”? For starters Bill, Buell can spend every bit as much money as Kawasaki or any other team as long as they play within the rules." The Buells are not factory teams unlike Kawasaki’. Oh really Snowscum! Since when was Attack Kawasaki a “factory team”…well I’m waiting Snowscum. Hacking and R. Hayden are racing on the NON-factory team Attack Kawasaki because Kawasaki does NOT have a factory effort in ANY DMG class including Daytona Sportbike. The only reason Hacking and Hayden are racing on that team or even in DMG for that matter is because they had one year left on their contracts. This is common knowledge and any body even casually following American road racing would not need this to be told to them. But since you probably don’t believe me go to any other web sites like raodracingworld.com, Superbikeplanet, or even Attack Kawasaki’s own web site and read about it for your own self. Nice try Snowscum.
Steve -V-Twin Vs In-Line 4  May 10, 2009 12:51 PM
... Probably for the same reason that Ducati is allowed to run 1200CC in WSB against the In-Line 4's. Both engine types produce 200-220 HP.These engine types have there advantages and dis-advantages, but it is clear that when on a race circuit, the engine is running in upper rev range for most of the race. IN DSB the Aprilia and Buell are at the rev limiter at around 10-11K. The 600's are revving to the 14-15K mark and that is the neutralizer on the track. Off of the track and on the street, it would be a very different story. One other piece that nobody in talking about is the rolling start, which is joke too. Let em race already! The Buell and Aprilia would destroy these 600's off of the line with almost double the torque and that im sure is another way to level out the playing field.
shane4000 -why will they not race those bigger bikes  May 10, 2009 12:22 PM
why will they not race those bigger bikes against real 1000cc class.
Amari -Lets' get it real here...  May 10, 2009 11:03 AM
Jimidan makes a few wonderful points here about engine mechanics in stock form vs race spec. Has any Perfomance Data been released regarding the Dyno testing from each of these bikes? HP, Torque or actual weight of the bikes? I would assume that these bikes are using different gearing confurations too, which will play a significant role in power deliver.
Jimidan -Let's get real here...  May 9, 2009 10:57 PM
An engine is an air pump first. The more air it can pump the more power it produces. The faster that it revs, the more air it pumps. Displacement is just one measure of how "big" an engine is, and it is not the best one...a fact that is lost on the author and most posters on here, but not DMG. DMG gets it, and it has made for very entertaining racing in the Daytona Sportbike class...the proof is in the pudding. The test run in this article is flawed because it uses stock bikes and not the actual race bikes. If you think that the Kawasaki used in this test has similar performance stats to Hacking's bike, you are dumber than the Buell is ugli. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, BTW. The Buell is certainly not a cookie-cutter UJM, but has bodywork that was designed by the wind tunnel and not some gay fashion designer named Pierre. It is also quite functional...and function should be above form on a sporting motorcycle, or all of them would look like cruisers too. The Buell was NOT designed to be a race bike (don't take my word for it...ride it), unlike the Kaw and Aprilia, it just works well enough to be able to be successful on the track too. It with those high bars and friendly ergonomics it is actually comfortable to ride long distances. I own a Ducati 996R, which is a race bike with lights on it, so I know what I am talking about. Just think how good of a race bike Erik Buell could have designed if he had wanted to.
Josh -DMG is listening!  May 9, 2009 08:07 PM
According to SPEED, DMG dynoed all of the leaders before Barber to determine the power-to-weight. They decided to add 15 more pounds to the Buells. Sounds like they are doing their best...
Snowscum -Buell  May 9, 2009 03:39 PM
“Why is Kawasaki allowed twice the $$ advantage? Or twice the RPM advantage”? For starters Bill, Buell can spend every bit as much money as Kawasaki or any other team as long as they play within the rules." The Buells are not factory teams unlike Kawasaki.
Double Clutch Hutch -MOG  May 9, 2009 03:15 PM
Well well MOG, if you did indeed do the ID work on the Buell, I must commend you. That was robbery on your part. I'll stick to my hypermotard thanks. Its funky, distincitive and STILL way sexier than the Buell. Also, as an ID award winner for 08 with clients like Hummer, MotoCzysz, Apple, etc. I think i'm qualified to judge. I want Buell to succeed as much as the next guy, but look what Aprilia managed to pull off with a Rotax motor...gorgeous even if its old. "Think outside the box"..? you want airplane analogies? How 'bout Kelly Johnson, of Lockheed fame, the SR71 managed to be purposeful AND beautiful, i don't think the two are mutually exclusive, oh, except in your case. And yes, i know he did the P38. And yes, i could do a better job. Hope your assistant was good for more than coffee....
Josh -agreed.  May 9, 2009 09:16 AM
I completely agree with spambone. There may be a need for improving the rules, but it is the first year. Give them at least one before calling them inept. If there is a clear flaw in the system, and they don't fix it after the first season I'll be upset too. Mid-season rule changes aren't going to help anything. Remember, all new ideas are ridiculed, then hated, before they are accepted.
pod365 -DMG?  May 8, 2009 05:21 PM
I think you have touched on the what is really going on with DMG. Hey don't get me wrong, if Harley could have made the VR1000 run with the inline 4's (750's then)and put it on the box more than just once. You would have seen more people (Harley folks) at the race rather than hangin out on the streets in Daytona. I have been going to Daytona now for more than ten years (The track that is) and a few times to Barber. This year I camped at bot tracks for at least three days each. I was really looking forward to talking to people to see what they had to say and it seams to me that more people dislike DMG and the rules they have out. The biggest thing that struck me was that with all factors accounted for (Economy, weather or what have you)I saw a huge decrease in attendance at both races. Now Barber had weather issues but at Daytona I honestly was shocked because it was the first night race ever and the grandstands were the easiest place to find a seat. The last time I went Big Dog at Dayrona with the tower pass and all the good stuff I sat with a huge croud and oh ya our friends from the factorys. The real big boys. I sure didn't see any of them this year. I am so all for closer racing but don't tell me Eslick just got that much better. Hey he's a good rider no doubt but don't run your mouth when you can't point to that championship trophy on the mantel. Well maybe DMG just designed a series so he can.
MV Man -DSB comparison  May 8, 2009 03:58 PM
Spambone, you have restored my faith in the sensible, calm and rational American race fan.....you are American, aren't you?
spambone -Willing to give it time  May 8, 2009 03:18 PM
The most important point Steve made was this: "No trials, no hard tests." It's not the disparity in bikes that's the problem, it's that there is no transparency to judge the true results of DMG's ongoing experiment. We've already seen there are "horses for courses" and this provides more variability in results race-to-race. Whether that's more interesting to you than seeing the same 2 or 3 factories winning every race is a matter of personal preference I suppose. Despite their screw ups, I'm willing to give DMG the benefit of this year to prove whether the formula is in the ballpark ... but then they better come back with some smart (and open) fine tuning to give the teams and the fans the confidence that hard work and top riding will win races, regardless of the brand on the tank.
Federmint -Bill  May 7, 2009 07:42 PM
“The Kawasaki is a special blueprinted factory one off using parts you and I will never see and could never get... and if we could, it would be a $50K plus bike”. Bill, this is either a flat out lie on your part or you were seriously misinformed. Under DMG’s new rules no unobtainium or “trick” parts can be used; this is one of the many reasons the Yamaha r6 is the only factory 600 team in Daytona sportbike. The factories wanted to use special parts but can’t anymore. Remember Bill, DMG wanted their new rules to make it possible for privateer riders and teams to be competitive. DMG’s new rules are as strict or stricter than the previous year’s supersport rules. “Why is Kawasaki allowed twice the $$ advantage? Or twice the RPM advantage”? For starters Bill, Buell can spend every bit as much money as Kawasaki or any other team as long as they play within the rules. As far as having TWICE the RPM advantage, Bill did you know the Buell redlines only about 4000 rpms lower than the 600s. By your logic the 600s would be revving to 21,000 rpms because the Buell redlines at 10500rpm. “whoever has the draft will pass on the back straight”. To date the Buell has never been passed by a 600 in its draft on any back straight. Now that I may have clarified a few things for you Bill you can now see what the “problem” here is; unless of course you already new this and were just spreading misinformation your own self.
Bill -Good review, but it had nothing to do with the DMG rules  May 7, 2009 06:11 PM
The Buells racing are basically bikes rolled off the showroom floor with updated ECM's and exhausts and chain style swingarms (so they can tune gearing). Figure $17k total out of pocket, and you are racing. The Kawasaki is a special blueprinted factory one off using parts you and I will never see and could never get... and if we could, it would be a $50K plus bike. Why is Kawasaki allowed twice the $$ advantage? Or twice the RPM advantage? Those are just as fair a question as "why does Buell get twice the displacement". Watch the races... whoever has the draft will pass on the back straight. The power of the bikes across the board are matched. Buell has more low end power, Kawasaki has less weight. The net effect is great racing... I don't see the problem. (And for the record, I have owned 5 bikes, two buells, two kawasakis, and a Yamaha... I currently own both a buell and a kawasaki, and enjoy both).
ep -nice article  May 7, 2009 01:27 PM
so i guess next season everyone will be riding a buell... boo.
Slim -BluBLak  May 7, 2009 11:13 AM
“Oh.. and how come nobody ever seems to whine about needing to slow Mladin down”? That would be because Mladin is NOT racing a bike with nearly 90% more displacement than his competition; Mladin is winning with skill and playing by fair and logical rules. “Daytona Sportbike was NEVER intended to be a 600cc class” I could not agree with you more BluBlak, so therefore lets allow 750 I4 sportbikes enter Daytona sportbike class. After all it isn’t a 600 class right. Moreover, why can’t Ducati race their big twin but Buell can??? “EVERYONE agreed to it. So shut up already”! Actually BluBlak everyone did not agree to these rules. There is not factory Ducati, Kawasaki, Honda, Suzuki, KTM, or BMW teams racing in Daytona sportbike. The only factory teams racing in Daytona sportbike are Yamaha and Buell. “It's already been proved that the bikes are competitive” Really, how so BluBlak? Your attempt to rationalize what DMG and Buell are doing, by giving a play by play description of what happened in the first few races, does not hold water. In racing many different variables affect race outcomes but with the major advantage DMG has given the Buell, in the long run it will always have a leg up on its competition no matter what the competition does. “How many Buells on the podium in the first race”? Well gee BluBlak how many Buells entered the race…only 5 out of a 44 rider grid maybe that had something to do with it. “Second race it was TWO bikes taking each other out that put Slick on the box. Please, a little logical thought here” Logic, you call this statement logic BluBlak. You could say illogical stuff like this for any race: if I didn’t have a mechanical , if I didn’t run out of gas, if the other guy didn’t pass me in the last corner, if I got a better start off the grid, if I had a better qualifying position, if I chose a different set up…etc and etc. In racing you don’t get awarded points on HOW you finished a race but instead on WHERE you finish a race…commonsense. Fact is BluBLak the Buell has a 15 hp advantage and a nearly 30 ft. lb. of torque advantage in STOCK form over the 600s. Which simply means anything you do to your 600, allowed by the strict DMG rules, it is also being done to the Buell? You put an exhaust, intake, and ignition upgrade on the 600 so does the Buell. So how can a 600 possibly make up the huge disparity in hp and torque? It can’t and it doesn’t. But in your world along with DMG this is fair and competitive racing. LOL!!!
FearlessNSeattle -DMG Destroying the sport and Buell is a bully on the playground  May 7, 2009 11:05 AM
I would like to see the AMA use World Super bike or BSB rules. The AMA 600 SuperSport used to be the most fun and competitive to watch DMG turned it into a Preschool. There should be two classes Super sport (600 inline 4s, 675 triples, 848 liquid twins) and Super bike (1000 4s and 1200 limit twins). Too bad the Buell is so ugly. I loved the Firebolt it had a simple elegance about it. The 1125 looks hideous in person. I agree with HM Why not the Suzuki 750 enter the Daytona class? We all know why. The 750 would smoke the Buell. When the Buells go up against the 600 bigbrothers the 1000s they lose badly.
BluBLak -Daytona Sportbike - from a race fans view..  May 7, 2009 08:45 AM
Hmmmm.. Let me see.. Without starting too much (I hope) mud slinging here.. Daytona Sportbike was NEVER intended to be a 600cc class.. People are too hung up on the big four standard production sizes. It's supposed to be a 'parity' series where race teams could keep costs down and still be competitive, without the factory teams dominating EVERYTHING with un-obtanium. That said.. Original plans were a HP/Weight restricted run what ya brung class. It was nixed by folks like the MIC (as I understand it) so this rule set was brought out. EVERYONE agreed to it. So shut up already! It's already been proved that the bikes are competitive, I guess only I can see the close racing going on? Fontana - Hacking on new bike, new suspension, spends most of his race dicing with DiSalvo and co. and allows the quick turning, low end grunt on the Buell get away. Road Atlanta - DiSalvo lowsided, Jake killed his tires and a safety car cost him what should have been a comfortable lead for the win. oops, more crashes and or bad starts and on the last lap Eslick passes someone and manages to hold him off the short distance to the line. Barber - How many Buells on the podium in the first race? Second race it was TWO bikes taking each other out that put Slick on the box. Please, a little logical thought here. The guys on the inlines are still getting used to riding bikes the rest of us may even be able to afford, that's all.. Once they get used to NOT riding super custom built race machines. Oh.. and how come nobody ever seems to whine about needing to slow Mladin down? He's won way too many races this year. He should be penalized for being able to win race after race. After all, he's won more then Eslick has, we should add weight to his bike, make him ride with one eye closed and not allow him to have more then three gears! Let's make this fair, after all....
Frank -Close racing  May 7, 2009 08:31 AM
The big loser hear is Buell. In the end when Buell wins a race it will always be argued that, hey they are a bigger bike of course they won, and when they lose it will be, wow they cant even win being almost twice as large as the competition. I was talking about this to my wife during Daytona this year, and as a non-rider the main thing that stuck in her mind was that it seems unfair that they are letting a bike so much bigger race in the series. If they want to attract new spectators they should know that will always be on their mind, a newbie doesnt bench race and discuss power to weight ratio and tire management. They see 600cc vs 1125cc. And if the large majority of motorsport fans in the U.S. are NASCAR fans like DMG hopes, then those fans will have even more trouble understanding such obvious dissimilarity.
PS -DSB COMPARO  May 7, 2009 06:45 AM
I think everyone likes close racing and if that is what this class offers, more power to them. But this is a pretty sad commentary on the state of American engineering and manufacturing. Imagine similar rules applied in other motorsports. "Oh, this is the American entry?, give them an 87% displacement advantage, it should be competitive then."
HM -DSB Comparison  May 7, 2009 05:58 AM
Okay, so if this is Daytona Sport Bike, then why not allow the GSXR 750 to enter?
Mark -Use to watch AMA sport bike racing  May 7, 2009 12:06 AM
Haven't seen American sportbike race this year since DMG took over. I use to watch religiously. The Buell and Aprilia need to race against the superbikes at 1000cc not in 600cc class. Or make their own 600cc class bike and enter it.
Josh -Losers?  May 6, 2009 10:32 PM
"The real losers here are... anyone not on a Buell." Is that why the other bikes are leading the championship?
Tezarit -MOG  May 6, 2009 09:58 PM
“There is a reason that I have 5 Buells all of the XB type”. Yeah, the reason is POOR taste. Maybe you have five Buells because at least one is bound to start and run on any given day.LOL Thinking outside of the box does not need to be ugly. “They are a rare wine and anyone can buy one and have it serviced easily” First off, how can it be a “rare wine” if anyone can buy one? Wouldn’t that make it common and cheap? And it is a good thing the Buell can be serviced easily because it will need lots of service and repairs. I also find it to be a crime that you compared American fighter planes to a Buell! I think the Buell would be better compared to a late 70’s AMC Gremlin but with a big engine.
MOG -2009 DSB Comparison  May 6, 2009 09:06 PM
Double Clutch Hutch said "Engineers always want to be designers.... pay someone to do a proper job". It was your injudicious hyperbole that lost for you, this particular design job. Erik did paid a quite hansom price for a true Industrial Designer and assistants. Not unlike the aluminium faired Norton racers of the 1930's, the ugly bikes 'established' the look to be followed. The ugly P39, P40 Warhawk, P38, P51, post war Studebaker and Avanti were all poo-pooed by the press until the numbers caught up..... then every body set these marques as the standard. From a marketers standpoint, it is the controversy that is beating the crap out of the tepid foreign designs. Think outside the box son, the bike is incredibly slippery in the tunnel and on the tarmac. This bike has function beyond all forms (including the competition). There is a reason that I have 5 Buells all of the XB type. They are a rare wine and anyone can buy one and have it serviced easily. Let us know when you become a really top ID, I'll see if this ID can find a reason to remember it.
RBJ -Results Don't Lie  May 6, 2009 08:49 PM
I don't see how anyone who has actually watched the DSB races this season could not agree that the bikes are evenly matched and the competition is better than it has been in years. Kudos to DMG for getting bikes other than Japanese I-4's in the mix and allowing the privateers to have a chance to compete against the stranglehold the factory teams have had on the series for years. The results don't lie- how many different makes have filled the top ten, and how many different riders have stood on the podium? Look at the lap times- the Buell has not been the fastest bike out there, but it has been consistent. Superbike continues to be the (yawn) Suzuki Cup while DSB has been a slugfest with multiple passes each lap which provides the edge-of-your-seat excitement that has been absent from AMA racing for a long time. If Speed Channel would get with the program and show the races same-day, DSB would rank closely behind WSBK and MotoGP as the most exciting motorcycle racing series on TV. Changes had to made at AMA Pro Racing, and although it isn't perfect, they are headed in the right direction and it's way better than it used to be. I have enjoyed AMA racing this year more than I have in a very long time. I also hope to see Aprilia and Triumph on the podium soon- the Big Four have had the sandbox to themselves for too long.
Ape Factory -Why oh why...  May 6, 2009 08:46 PM
...didn't you use the RSVR Factory instead of the "standard" RSVR? And did you even bother to set the bike up on it's track settings?
RaceFan -The Big Picture  May 6, 2009 08:14 PM
I've been a fan of American Roadracing for more than two decades, and I honestly can't remember the racing ever being as close or exciting to watch. I'm not here to defend DMG, but I also don't subscribe to the hype that all the haters are spewing. In a time when the economics of racing (not just motorcycles) are putting our loved sport at risk around the globe, DMG is trying something new. I for one give them credit, and hope they succeed. As for Buell, I've always wanted to chear for an American bike!
md80drvr -oh boy  May 6, 2009 07:05 PM
Guys, this is not a 600 class. It's a sportbike class with rules to make the machines competitive with one another. If the Buell's are so advantaged then why are they not 1-2-3 every race? Answers please?! I was at Barber's and if 3rd and 4th had not crashed out on the last lap, Danny wouldn't have had a 3rd place finish. Where's the advantage? Clearly, it's not as big of one if at all. The reason for this is that the Buell is heavier and has a bone stock engine with a race pipe and a race tune. You can literally buy one off of the the showroom floor and put another 5-6K in it and have a full blown race bike. Do you honestly think you could do that with one of the factory 600's?
MV Man -DSB comparison  May 6, 2009 06:23 PM
Eslick ain't the only one riding his heart out! The race results have been anything but laughable. Cardenas, DiSalvo, Herrin, Hacking, Hayden and Zemke are waging an absolute war each time they take the grid. Am I the only one actually watching this tremendous series?
Superlight -Buell  May 6, 2009 05:18 PM
With the rules in this racing class, Buell has been given so much machine advantage that the results are laughable. Too bad, since I'm sure Eslick is riding his heart out. The twins need some displacement advantage versus a similar-tech four (they can't rev as high and won't make the same HP with the same engine size), but not double the size.
Rob -Buell 1125R  May 6, 2009 05:07 PM
The funny thing is Buell is small, a privateer team with Geico support, RMR,etc. They are racing American Superbike with real independent privateers like Shawn Higbee,(Willow Spring lap record), the Underdog and now Walt Sipp. They run with not much support and run both classes, DSP and SP on stock underpowered bikes by 40-50HP..first year Buell 1125R's!..used tires. Wow if it were the Jap bikes doing this, how much credit would they get and now they cry because DMG has made it closer with 6-7 manufacturers in the top 10 and ducati does not want to enter there race ready 848..which is a detuned 1098/1198. Come on already are we not Amercan?...the bike is designed and built in America(Austrian motor,Italian Magneti Marelli/Japanese Showa suspension,Nissin brakes,etc with the world economy)..how much Chinese/Jap parts are on Ducs, Aprilias(rotax), Triumph and all the Jap bikes...I rest my case..and just watch the races..first time I had any interest in AMA Sportbike and Superbike. Rob
Double Clutch Hutch -Buellsh*t  May 6, 2009 04:36 PM
I can resist no longer....for all the thoughtful innovation Erik Buell engineers into his motorcycles, why, WHY does he insist on designing them as well ?! This bike, like most if not all of the models in his range, is hideous in real life. As an industrial and transportation designer by trade I can tell you from first hand experience, NEVER let an engineer design a product. Engineers always want to be designers, he needs to swallow his pride and pay someone to do a proper job. I have been tempted over the years to go for a Buell because they tick almost all of the right boxes, made in America, kinda funky and unique, but in the end I can never get past the styling or lack thereof.
shnapper -Aprilia V -vs- Honda Rc51  May 6, 2009 02:04 PM
I think factory Honda should supply some left over stock Rc51's and should modify them to this unknown rule books specs. Hey it should be legal to run the RC51 it's way long in the tooth like the Aprilia. I take nothing away from Eslick and agree with his talent, but this article also states Eslick was never in it until he hopped on the Buell so who knows... DMG could kill the sport, but why should they care the Nascar Circuit is alive and well. Only a tiny amount of fans fill the AMA spectator seating compared to Nascar and it's a shame. For some reason when all this came about with DMG taking over I pictured AMA races getting exploited and thriving off of DMG's power to advertise. Wow was I wrong not only do they govern the sport, AMA is shadowed under a Nascar rock while there four wheeled step-child flourishes.
klx650realdeal -buell  May 6, 2009 01:05 PM
Well..... you gotta love Eric Buell and his creations! Remember, he didn't create this class! And what do you mean by 'try not to be seen on it in public????'
MV Man -DSB comparison  May 6, 2009 12:26 PM
"I had no idea it would be this close", "ZX6R was right there in terms of overall fastest lap time", "Buell takes the top spot followed extremely closely by the Kawasaki", hmmmm. Sounds like a dog fight to me. If Buell hires DiSalvo, Hacking, Roger or Herrin, I may agree that a change is needed. Rather than complain about a non perfect series, I'll just continue to enjoy the wildest two wheel show this side of World Supersport!
TexasFrank -Fight Fixing  May 6, 2009 11:07 AM
I stopped watching boxing several years ago when decisions were always handed awarded to the more popular fighter. DMG reminds me of a crooked fight promoter. To put a Bike with 500 more cc's in the same class, just so it can be competitive, is fight fixing. It's not even close. The sad thing is, I really like the new Buell. It's just not up to race standards. The rest of the world is watching and chuckling at DMG's feeble attempt to get the 'home team' in the hunt. It's pathetic. I still watch superbike coverage, but can't take this class seriously.